Is it safety or separation?

[OneFlakyMaker]

When opposing transgender people in women's spaces, are you looking for safe spaces or separate spaces?

They may overlap but are not the same thing, and while a lot of the discussion is focused on safety, the tone and some arguments hint that addressing safety won't be enough for many people to feel comfortable. Instead, a place without males is sought.

I read one woman described it "At the club we used the women's bathroom to get a break from interacting with men".

Ah, I see. Women used as training materials to help the poor confused men learn how not to be misogynist pricks. I didnt grasp that point.

Many men are quite capable of interacting with women without insulting them, or trying to lecture them.

Learn from them!

In plain sight !

At least the constant repetitive links, emojis and such has disappeared.

If you really dont know of any decent men from whom you can learn basic standards of decent behaviour and how to interact with women, then just try to imagine that women are human beings with agency, life experience, and the same rights to self determination as men.

I don't think Howse realises we can spot an abusive male from the other side of the planet here.

We know what MRAs look and sound like.

We've had enough of them visiting MN to be able to recognise the pattern. They aren't new and they don't say anything original.

The TRAs who spout on about how we aren't feminist because we don't include male transwomen but sound EXACTLY like MRAs are a particular joy.

When you use the same tired tropes it's not exactly difficult.

Lots of women also seek the company of men because they like men and get on better with men in certain ways. I also post on another specialist interest forum which is 99% male and have done for many years, as an example. I have male friends in 'real life' too. My gay male friends are often like a 'half way house' between my male and female friends in that some of our shared styles and approach to communication is similar as with female friends.......but

My longest standing female friends are those who I met when our children were babies, and we were brought together because of these shared circumstances. A combination of the commonality of life experience/perspectives and our shared substance ( being female) is what draws us to other women. Certainly for me.

Ultimately though, even with female friends we each have our own individual style and mode of communication, interest and friendship. Friendships can be built on all sorts of different foundations.

I think I need to repeat this post.

AGAIN.

Just adding to my post.

Is it exposure to this board then that has meant you, personally, learned how to behave with respect in a space that is in the vast majority used by women?

Is that what changed how you interact so dramatically? Are you telling us that you are living proof of what contact with women achieves in improving someone’s behaviour? Or was it the punishment of deletions?

Indeed.

That was the informative nugget I found when reading the post from yesterday morning. I think most of us just skipped reading the post the first time around.

But it is indeed abusive to women.

Women, you cannot ever meet up without including male people because if you do, male people will treat you badly! And if you even think of it, you are ‘separatists’ and you need to be ashamed.

Our treasure chest of gems are overflowing with these latest threads.

That is superficial change... only at the level of social presentation and private psychological imagination. You cannot change the 'substance'. You cannot change your sex ( the hard drive). Nothing at the more superficial level is permanent or fixed. It is fluid and changes with time and experience. If you are trying to fix 'femininity' in place it will end up being nothing but an exaggerated performance like a set of clothes you put on each morning to achieve a particular impression of whatever is is you want to project that day. The clothes are nothing but a costume one wears to signal one's role or character in the social system or order.

.

The movement from one state to another is socially living as the opposite gender by making changes to one's body & social status.

Lets break this down

socially living as the opposite gender

A meaningless phrase. How does one live 'as a woman'?

making changes to one's body

Changes, but none that actually brings anyone closer to being female. The end result is a changed male

social status.

Doesn't happen

So a complete non definition

'Being a woman' is not an expressive option or performance style. A woman is an adult human female and the only thing she shares with all other women are the facts of her biology.

“The movement from one state to another is socially living as the opposite gender by making changes to one's body & social status.”

People can have whatever ‘gender’ they want. They don’t move from one sex to another though. And if other people don’t want to recognise someone’s ‘gender’ there should be no enforcement of it.

Single sex provisions are not based on ‘gender’, they are based on the sex class that person belongs to. HTH

Thank you.

ive just been sick.

I can’t believe it’s ok for that person to state that my violent rape and sa is my fault because of a lack of contact.

im beyond upset that the post is standing.

this person it’s a thought experiment and some sort of game to say more and more outlandish and ridiculous word salad and they don’t care about the impact on real women. Collateral damage. That’s all I am.

I struggle enough with feelings of worthlessness and self blame after my rape. What did I didn’t I should I have done. But to make it my fault because I want SSS? That’s just beyond me.

❤️

I'm so sorry.

There are genuinely no depths to which these ghouls won't sink to

Honestly. It’s so stark.

It’s my fault I got raped because women have single sex spaces.

And they don’t even have the guts to answer me. Because they know they have no answer.

But. Every single person who reads their posts now is going to see me going. You’re the one who told me my rape was my fault because women have single sex spaces.

That’s not a statement I’m going to let pass.

”now its become more acceptable that's why some are taking further steps to live their 'authenticity'.”

When I see sentences such as this one in relation to male people becoming ‘authentic’ women I really think authentic has become another one of those words that has been twisted to now mean the opposite to the intended and established meaning.

Avoiding the question? Makes sense….

I’ve not avoided any of your questions.

lets talk about how you say my rape and sa is my fault because women have single sex spaces. Go on. Let’s.

There's this thing called "physical attraction" that you don't necessarily need to 'act out' on others to prove you are.

don't dehumanise & demonise trans people = "hostility towards the women and girls" 🤪

But but but. You said my violent rape was my fault because of a lack of contact.

ive asked you to answer me. Please do.

ta.

I’ve never dehumanised any trans person

A man dehumanised me though, when he raped and sexually assaulted me. When he strangled me so hard I pissed myself.

I hope you are ok. Taztoy

The post you refer to is DARVO. As you have picked up it really is victim blaming.

female people - we want to socialise away from male people.

male people - but then we won’t know how to treat you with respect. And you will be responsible for that.

female people - we need space to heal without you being there.

male people - then accept that we won’t treat you with respect and accept the consequences.

DARVO

Keep laughing at me @Howseitgoin I see you and you’re showing everyone else loud and clear.

The word is

NO