Is it safety or separation?

[OneFlakyMaker]

When opposing transgender people in women's spaces, are you looking for safe spaces or separate spaces?

They may overlap but are not the same thing, and while a lot of the discussion is focused on safety, the tone and some arguments hint that addressing safety won't be enough for many people to feel comfortable. Instead, a place without males is sought.

I read one woman described it "At the club we used the women's bathroom to get a break from interacting with men".

Yip. Agree 💯.

And I’m going to keep calling it out.

If you can't comprehend the irrelevancy of mapping psychopathic outliers onto the average person I can't help you.

'Whoring' was, to my mind, inadvertent mask slipping. 'Karen' is totally deliberate.

Hows has no arguments and is clearly getting absolutely nowhere with any woman, so it's bait time.

Taztoy, hard though it might be, try and ignore his posts. We can all see what he's doing.

I did not fully understand how much men hated women until this TRA nonsense raised its head.

I now do.

Ahhh. There it is. There is the emojis.

Care to now explain again how wanting single sex provisions is dehumanising and demonising trans people?

Care to include in your explanation that female single sex provisions that include female people with transgender identities is dehumanising and demonising trans people?

Have you got a concise explanation as to why it is considered demonising and dehumanising to have single sex provisions?

Please tell me how my rape and as is my fault because I want to avail of my legal right to single sex spaces.

Because we can all see that’s what you said.

thanks.

There's his thing called 'individualism'. On what basis an individual defines oneself varies from individual to individual & is subjective.

The categorical error you are making is the characteristics that distinguish females from males being limited to reproductive ones when its clearly not by your own admission of sexual violence being more prevalent in men necessitating private spaces.

As long as everyone see what they did.

I’m appalled at their statements against women and girls being allowed to stand tbh.

We can't base laws and societal rules on subjective criteria like 'he feels he is woman'.

There’s this thing called “being a rape apologist”. You might want to bear it in mind.

The answer is still no you tedious man child. Just use the men's 🙄

(and your lack of empathy for Taztoy and her experiences screams your male socialisation for all to see)

Uh huh, 'we women need chats away from men so we are free to discuss the footy, gaming, stock market, porn, cars & locker room talk in peace'…said no women's group ever….

I don’t think I have avoided your question at all. I have explored it from several different aspects.

I recall an interesting discussion on Ovarit regarding men who identified as women and the behaviour stemming from a normal childhood experience.

They felt, or seemed, psychologically damaged from having to leave female single sex spaces after a certain age as a child. They felt cast aside by their mothers in a shocking and cruel manner. They then spent their lives trying to get back into those comforting spaces to be coddled and mothered.

"is simply feeling free to express what comes naturally."

You're almost there!

We can report the post if you like but most of us don't report that sort of thing on here because we believe it is better for these people to show themselves for the woman hating sickos they are.

What comes naturally to trans identifying men is being male.

Oh my!

You really do live in stereotypes.

'we women need chats away from men so we are free to discuss the footy, gaming, stock market, porn, cars & locker room talk in peace'

Sounds like the discussions that I have indeed been part of. In fact, we discussed those issues while watching ‘footy’ and commenting on the skills and play from the brilliant women players. A few of the women present would probably be called ‘super feminine’ too.

We don’t fit into your stereotypes and you keep showing the inherent misogyny of your arguments in so many different ways. Well done.

It’s interesting if you look at the data around serious sexual assault including rape - including the ONS anonymous self reported data ( because most assaults are believed to go unreported )

the only conclusions I could draw was that between 1 in 10 to 1 in 5 men had committed at least one action that severely traumatised the woman involved to the extent that she felt she had been seriously sexually assaulted

the variation comes from working out individual men as the majority of convictions are men who have clearly offended multiple time - although that will directly link to probability of conviction

that’s hardly a tiny fraction of men is it? At best 1 in 10

this compared with psychopathic estimate at around 1%

so it’s not just the psychopaths we are afeared of

that is a myth. In British culture that kind of abuse is widespread , not as bad as some cultures. Again - because it’s not a psychopath behaviour it’s a male behaviour

i am so cross at the lies and myths being pedalled - the implication that it’s irrational of women whilst irrationally ignoring all the data that’s out there and publically available - using stereotypes of silly women to support their pathetically weak argument and to dismiss the harm and hurt that women face

edit to remove swearing

It's not about what we want to discuss.

It's about wanting to discuss it without being talked over by some mainsplaining tosser.

It isn't limited to reproduction. The old "genitals" argument. Every single part boff my body is part of being female. Men who want to be women know their voices are too low, their feet are too big, their pelvis is the wrong shape so their feet turn out when they walk, they have broad shoulders and an Adams apple...

The book 'Invisible Women' explains how the world operates for men - even in my gym the mirrors are too low because a man positioned them for his height and the steps are spaced for a male gait, so Women can't easily stride on them. My bus stop seat is too high for me to use without my feet coming off the floor. None of this has anything to do with reproduction. We are different in so many diffrent ways and the world makes it difficult for us in ways you simply don't understand because men don't experience it.

We don't give a fuck about his "individualism". It is by definition something which concerns him and him alone. It has got fuck all to do with the rest of us and is not a reason for him to invade our spaces.

You are literally the one who suggested that possessing such characteristics makes someone a woman.

So which of these characteristics do you think these male "women" possess?

And of course according to you that separation is the reason we are raped. Got it.

one can't claim to be a homosexual without having associations to homosexual behaviour

I can't be arsed to read all the boring, but is there a score sheet for 'associations to homosexual behaviour'?

Is it like the UK citizenship test? Would a chap have to enjoy musical theatre or big motorbikes or shunning the company of women, or would he have to actually shag another chap in public view? I once knew a ruggedly heterosexual (and unpleasantly handsy) zoologist who said in a wildlife service job interview that botany was 'for women and homosexuals' (they didn't hire him). A grindr account and proof of using it?

I feel very sorry for all the ordinary gay blokes who'd fail the exam.

What about lesbians? I have at times been given to understand that short hair, flat shoes and shunning unwanted male advances are enough for some blokes, so I'm in without having to do any of the sex stuff.

Life is so much simpler once you know that women are female, men are male, sexual orientation is not relevant except when courting or pairing off.