"Right or Left, I want No Part in Extremism" - Milli Hill

[WhereDidSummerGoAgain]

A thoughtful article by Milli Hill today.

https://millihill.substack.com/p/right-or-left-i-want-no-part-of-extremism

I can't help but find myself agreeing with her.

I know there's been a lot of debate on here about Kelly-Jay and whether she supports the far right.

Milli's article links to a Twitter post by Tommy Robinson showing an event and his inner circle. Kelly-Jay is there, dressed in a Union Jack.

This is pretty conclusive now, isn't it? You don't go and hang out with racists like Tommy Robinson and pals in times like these if you don't support them, surely?!

Milli's stood up for Kelly-Jay before, but this is a step too far for her, and for me too.

Just wondering what others think? This really doesn't look like a mistake this time.

From what I’ve read/watched TR isn’t an ethno-nationalist. I think anti-Islam more accurately describes him.

Have to say I have some sympathy for that......or certainly with anti 'Islamism'. For Hitler, the Jews became the arch enemy who had to be destroyed, along with the communists, the homosexuals, the disabled, the gypsies.

There arte certainly voices in Reform, though, who don't see Kemi Badenoch as 'British'.

I saw many black people interviewed at the march who were extremely patriotic. Is that OK or do you just mean white people arent allowed to be but everyone else can be?

Do you think any of the people worried about the state of the UK has actually read any of Hitlers writings?

Do all those people waving 'refugees welcome here' ever sign up to house refugees at theirs or do they mean 'NIMBY though'?

It is all very well being sympathetic but when the rubber hits the road, what is the reality for people who get hundreds of bored foreign men shipped into their town who have no concept of consent and want to shag anything that moves? Thinking there won't be problems with this is insanity.

Its not about high faluting theories of 'ethninationalism' it is about survival. And right now, the powers that be have failed so, so badly, in so, so many ways, they are virtually inviting a Pied Piper to come in and lead the unhappy throng and the person who is taking up that offer is someone who 'has been in jail and owes taxes'. As if that's not going to attract more unhappy people to the party.

Plus, all this talk of violence and arrests - well look at the stats on the Notting Hill Carnival and other recent political marches...the arrest rate is through the roof and yet this is the one picked out as troublesome. They are spinning the whole thing as bad and scarey as if it is a Halloween story.

Maybe anti-Islamism. Two very different things.

I'm not trying to say anything aboutv everyone on the march.

Someone asked how 'far right' might be defined and i responded with the sorts of things that Hitler stood for and preached. The enemy may 'morph' somewhat from black people to jews, gypsies...to muslims...but the patterns and the rhetoric are the same.

No, i don't imagine most people have read any history about the Third Reich - but that doesn't mean that they are still not marching with a movement that also contains ethno nationalists and other extremists who I've heard say things like " Kemi Badenoch is not British".

I don't sign up with the extreme Left, either...or support the anti-fascists who turn up to provoke,

@Imnobody4 thank you very much for the share token. It was an interesting article. He's right, mainstream politicians are mad to ignore this.

I do think KJK is right wing and have always thought so, but I also don't think it matters.

She's a canny marketer of her brand, and her brand is sex-realism. Strong look, clear message, instantly recognisable - the Coca Cola of Transwomen Are Men. She's not a feminist and has never described herself as one.

Violence is not confined to Right or Left. Violence occurs when things get very polarised and it arises from both sides.

In the 1980's a women's bookshop in Liverpool used to be regularly attacked by members of the BNP. They'd come in, over-turn the tables and throw books everywhere, scream abuse. There were even 12 arson attacks. They saw the bookshop as part of their enemy. Left wing, feminist etc

When you start talking about " survival" I do think you've lost perspective. When people feel they are fighting for their very survival they do desparate things.

I'm calling for moderation, not suppression. For a move towards a more pragmatic, responsive centre ground, not for a move to the extreme Left.

Hitler was not a socialist

And yet the anti fascists are the ones who wear black masks, black clothing and scream at women who just know that biological reality exists.

They ARE the bloody fascists. They dont turn up to provoke, they are paid up professional agitators who go from march to march, pick up their pre-made banners and do what they have been paid to do.

And yet they just marched. They didn't cause trouble, significantly less that any other march and just had a good day out. I imagine 90% of them probably just want decent fuel and food prices, want to go to work and come home and relax, want their kids to be able to afford houses and want to go to the beach and not swim in sewage. And just wanted to have the opportunity to talk to other normal people about it.

Demonising normal people is what makes normal people swing further right so maybe people need to think through their demonising before it does get out of hand.

I agree there is a difference. Although, from what I've read, a high percentage of majority muslim countries have islamist governments so these things are clearly closely connected.

Why are you ranting at me, though? I know the antifascists are as bad, if not worse in many circumstances. I used to be a an activist on the Left and I know all about Left wing and anarchic extremism...which is why I moved more towards an 'inner' journey rather than a more overtly political one. Sort yourself out first was where I was at......... until the advent of trans ideology, which has re-ignited my political activism.

During that more observational and reflective period I may became far more attuned to movements in the collective; to noticing and onbserving patterns.....and this is pretty much where I tend towards operating from now.

Farage has become the figurehead for a movement in the collective - towards a more 'right wing' position. Corrective, in that when things go too far in one direction, there tends to be a natural re-balancing in the other.

I think 'right wing' also is about boundaries and borders ( at every level) as an anti-dote to to much openness, boundarylessness, globalisation, multi-cultualism etc - all of which have become necessary articles of faith in the West - but which wipe out individual uniquness and trample healthy boundaries.

But veering too far in the opposite direction is not healthy, either. Which is why i hope that Labour party can re-set and start to focus on a few key issues and become more effective at responding to the shift in the collective. Inrenal ideological struggles are just a distraction from the task at hand...which needs to be addressed to restore some stability.

I understand what happens when people get demonised, which is why here on this board many of us have defended the rights to free speech and so on...in the face of demonisation by radical Lefties and so called 'progressives'.

A few weeks ago, I would have agreed that Tommy Robinson was beyond the pale. I thought he was a racist thug.
Then I listened to his interview on Triggernometry. I realised my views of him came just from snippets in the media and what people say about him.
I don’t think he’s racist. I don’t know on what basis he could be called ‘far right’.
He’s certainly not perfect, but he comes from a very different background to me, with different life experiences.
He’s seen a (real) problem and actually done something about it. How many people can say that?

Another thread with "evidence" that KJK is "far-right" and so shouldn't be listened to any more.

This whole right vs left nonsense is all over the Kirk murder. I would characterise it as very "studenty politics". And the idea that as soon as someone is labelled "far-right" they should be silenced (usually cancellation, but we've now seen the violent consequences).

Far-right is so over used now it has become meaningless.

I agree with Milli. I am independent-minded enough to stand up and push back when the progressive left tried to deny biological sex exists, and I’m not going to meekly fold when the far right tries to tell me all our social ills are because of immigrants, leftists (and increasingly feminists - that’s been turning up on even this board recently).

I stand for women’s rights, safeguarding children, state-supplied health care and the dignity of a proper wage for work. I am not changing any of that because a loud and influential section of the LGBT movement manager to get outsized influence in denying basic biology. We are doing just fine in rolling that back without Tommy and Nigel’s “help.”

Yes, but we do need to address the issue of uncontrolled migration because it is a very de-stabilising influence. And culture and identity are important factors too - without any central unifying set of values, things fall apart and we get anomie.

I think 'right wing' also is about boundaries and borders ( at every level) as an anti-dote to to much openness, boundarylessness, globalisation, multi-cultualism etc - all of which have become necessary articles of faith in the West - but which wipe out individual uniquness and trample healthy boundaries.

But veering too far in the opposite direction is not healthy, either. Which is why i hope that Labour party can re-set and start to focus on a few key issues and become more effective at responding to the shift in the collective. Inrenal ideological struggles are just a distraction from the task at hand...which needs to be addressed to restore some stability.

It's scary that Labour only have 4 short years to show they are listening to people's concerns. If they fail to do so we are bound to end up with a Reform government. At the moment they are still going for insinuating that the people who want a debate in relation to immigration or who attend marches like this one are far-right or racist. I don't hold up much hope.

But if the concern is that we are importing criminal thugs from abroad, it’s not clear why anyone is following a criminal thug like TR

Maybe watch one of the interviews (Triggernometry was suggest upthread) and you might gain some insight into why people support him.

I'd say the main issue is simply uncontrolled migration and an inability to control one's own boundaries/borders.......all else is secondary. Labour needs to get to grips with this and fairly swiftly. Hopefully Shabana Mahmood can bring some steel and determination. If they don't get a handle soon, and get too involved in internal, ideological argy bargy, then Reform will be winners.......I was reading, yesterday, that several Manchester boroughs could be lost to Reform if things don't step up soon.

Because they easily conned?

He has criminal convictions for fraud and assault.

His background is in the BNP and football hooliganism.

This is why Reform will win the next election and It's why Trump won in the US. If you don't engage with what people are actually saying and continue to just call them far-right we are doomed. TR is a highly flawed individual but it just so happens that he speaks for hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of people in this country. I don't understand why people are so reluctant to engage in a debate. Immigration policy is just a numbers game. Unless you believe in completely open borders or completely closed borders you have to have a policy to deal with who you allow to come here and on what basis. If people are not allowed to openly discuss the pros and cons of policy in relation to immigration they will turn to the likes of TR and Reform. What is happening now is the result of years of calling ordinary people racist combined with the huge increase of both legal and illegal immigration.

I can’t bear the notion that if you agree with a person on one that that automatically means you agree with them on everything.

Trite analogy I know, but it veers closely to the Hitler was a vegetarian thing.

We’re seeing more and more of it, though. It used to be if you were a feminist you had to deny biological sex. Now it’s increasingly if you’re GC you have to support Tommy Robinson.