"Right or Left, I want No Part in Extremism" - Milli Hill

[WhereDidSummerGoAgain]

A thoughtful article by Milli Hill today.

https://millihill.substack.com/p/right-or-left-i-want-no-part-of-extremism

I can't help but find myself agreeing with her.

I know there's been a lot of debate on here about Kelly-Jay and whether she supports the far right.

Milli's article links to a Twitter post by Tommy Robinson showing an event and his inner circle. Kelly-Jay is there, dressed in a Union Jack.

This is pretty conclusive now, isn't it? You don't go and hang out with racists like Tommy Robinson and pals in times like these if you don't support them, surely?!

Milli's stood up for Kelly-Jay before, but this is a step too far for her, and for me too.

Just wondering what others think? This really doesn't look like a mistake this time.

Completely agree, just one person on this thread. I'm not suggesting it is representative of the thread, but I suspect it is representative of wider views about Tommy Robinson. (I'm not convinced that only Americans aren't aware of his background).

I think that the recent demonstrations have been sparked by the Epping hotel protest, and that grifters like Tommy Robinson piggy back onto people with rational concerns about immigration policy.

Given that this is the feminist board, I think this substack is informative on how 'helpful' Robinson has been to women.

https://juliebindel.substack.com/p/grooming-gangs-the-rape-and-pimping

Tommy Robinson and his supporters are racist thugs. My family are not safe around them. I'm happy to be unequivocal about that. Equally happy to say that though KJK and I agree that men can't be women, there is not much else we agree about.

I don't care how much abuse she has suffered (I have also paid a price in the trans battle), I don't like her politics. Sod the 'guilt by association', she is far too clever a political operative to be ignorant of the message she is sending when she appears next to TR wrapped in a union jack.

I don't want to cancel anyone; of course its important we listen carefully and don't jump into polarised positions. But KJK is a very good orator; I'd be nuts if I didnt see her as part of the threat.

You're making a good point, and I generally agree. I am of the left but have been in despair for years about identity politics and left discourse.

Nevertheless, and at the risk of falling back into identity politics, I think there is a lot of sophistry on this and similar threads, a lot of refusal to name the blinking obvious. Tommy Robinson IS a racist. The nation is horribly divided, and people are finding scapegoats.

My family were German Jews, my immediate family is mostly black, I am lesbian. That is going to give me a different visceral reaction (to TR) than it gives to KJK, I guess. I'd be happy to back that up with analysis but then you get the old ivory tower head girl white.

I'm bored of being told KJK somehow represents 'ordinary' women, and I don't. She, and many MNetters, are not threatened by his goons in the way others of us are. I don't pigeonhole people as good or bad on the basis of their politics, but I do quite like to know who, when the chips are down, would have my back.

I don’t hold a brief for Tommy Robinson but even a Stand Up To Racism fact sheet on him doesn’t say that he has committed acts of violence against black people.

in any case, my point is that Kellie Jay Keen doesn’t really care whether people think worse of her for wearing a Union Jack and going on a TR rally. And I think her position would be that she is unequivocally for women, even those who disagree with her.

I genuinely don't think a "racist thug" could inspire a million people (of all backgrounds and ethnicities) to go on a march. I'm amazed anyone who lives in Britain, one of the least racist countries in the world, could believe that.

You don't?! A history book would prove you wrong.

Britain is not immune from fascism. Remember that Germany was one of the best places in the world for Jews to live before Hitler came to power. My family were German war heroes in the first world war, murdered by Nazis in the second.

A million? Where are you getting that figure from?

Do you also feel that visceral fear at the pro Palestinian marches? I've seen more racism and anti semitism on those than this march. I didn't see people carrying placards of Hitler like the ones of Khamenei. I saw people carrying anti semitic signs including the red hand symbol.

This march to me represents a feeling of helplessness and frustration at being unjustly vilified and ignored. Of having
their beliefs and values trampled on. If Tommy Robinson is the only one listening to them that is a dreadful indictment of politicians.

I am very well aware that antisemitism comes from the left as well as the right, yes.

These days, anti-semitism comes far more from the left than the right.

So what's your point? That right wing antisemitism isn't so bad? I think the lesson of history is that in times of social crisis, Jews are endangered.

It doesn't matter if the vast majority of people on the march wouldn't call themselves far right - the vast majority of people who voted in the National Socialist Party were just Germans who were swayed by the same rhetoric and thought nationalism was the answer. No one is dismissing the march. Most people I know in marginalised groups are absolutely fucking terrified. My own daughter is worried every time her brown husband goes out because there have been a lot of flags in her area. Frankly, if I have a conversation with someone who starts talking about Tommy or Nige with any sort of 'reasonable concerns' rhetoric I'm treading very carefully because I know I'm talking to a potential problem. They are absolutely far right, and anyone who thinks they're not is already well on the way to fascist apologism.

Sadly, yes a million people and more would follow a racist thug, but leaving that aside, do you think a million people attended the London march? Where did you get that information from?

You’re absolutely right. And the idea that the march wasn’t about racism is absurd.

There is a reason so many white immigrants report that they are told they “aren’t the problem” by racists. Why so many Canadians, Australian, Spanish etc say they are flabbergasted when they receive better treatment and no vitriole compared to their Black or Asian BRITISH mates or partners.

Vast majority of immigration is legal but their issue is that a lot of it is and has been non-white. They can dress that up all they want but that is their sticking point in most cases.

All this racism and no reported racist incidents. Gosh. Well behaved racists eh?

I mean, it was a Free Speech rally, you guys need to wonder why it was rebranded in order to demonise all attendees. And why are you falling for the spin?

And I think her position would be that she is unequivocally for women, even those who disagree with her.

What does that mean though?

I am concerned about the loss of coherent legislation to protect women’s rights and whether that is destroyed by people who don’t believe in sex or people who don’t believe in equality legislation, the end result is the same.

Imnobody4 makes an interesting point.

We’ve had 2 years of nationalist marches going through London. I’ve read numerous accounts of Jewish people saying they are too afraid to be in London when they take place and that they have noticed a rise in anti-semitism since they began. The pro Palestine marches have a clear islamo-fascist contingent and reportedly some organisers have links to the Muslim Brotherhood or other Islamist organisations. At the same time most of those marching are not extremists but they turn a blind eye to those they are marching with who are.

How is this any different to what happened on Saturday? I can understand why people are uncomfortable with displays of nationalism. I know I am. But we have been witnessing overt displays of 🇵🇸 nationalism for 2 long years and I don’t quite understand how this is this any different?

In Britain, in 2025? No. We are one of the most tolerant countries in the world. A huge part of our national identity has been to do with winning WW2 and defeating fascism. It's a completely different context to Nazi Germany. I'm amazed at the lack of nuance and historical knowledge from posters here.

No one knows how many people were at the march but a million is the number that many commentators have been saying. It was a LOT, anyway. Those pictures of the streets of London absolutely thronged with people, peacefully protesting against the government, looked like hundreds of thousands at least.

It was a racist march full of black and Asian and Jewish people marching alongside white people. You'd think that would make people shouting 'racism' stop in their tracks. What kind of racist thugs invite and welcome people of all races to join them on their marches?

It’s traditional in this country for the police to underestimate numbers on a march and the organisers to overestimate. If the police were saying 100,000 and the organisers were saying 1 million the actual number probably falls somewhere in between. Looking at the aerial shots it was massive and I haven’t seen any footage that shows the entire length of the demo or where it starts to peter out. I read somewhere that the police only counted the people within a certain area and if that’s true that’ll be why the numbers are lower than the organisers are saying. I’ve also seen claims from some that there were 3 million people at the event which is patently absurd.

In Britain, in 2025? No.

Germany was very tolerant before Hitler. There is no magic protection.

But if your argument is that these people weren't following the clearly racist thug, Tommy Robinson, and perhaps didn't know much about him and just wanted to protest against the government's implementation of immigration policies, great. In that case, I am sure nobody who attended the march will be concerned about distancing themselves from him, lest it damage their social media following.

No one knows how many people were at the march but a million is the number that many commentators have been saying

It looks similar to the number of people who congregate in London on New Year's Eve, which is about 100,000 which is in line with police estimates of 100,000 to 150,000.

Germany was very tolerant before Hitler. There is no magic protection.

Anti-semitism has existed in Germany for centuries. The idea it all started with Hitler is for the birds.

This happened about two years ago in my country, there was a huge protest march, branded as racist, it had huge numbers of minority participants compared to the general population. Which wasn't a surprise because it was largely about queer content in public education and lots of newcomers are concerned about that.

I think part of the reason is the omnicause thinking. For some, they can't conceive of concern about anything coded conservative might not have racial connotations. People hate this stuff because they are bigots and bigots must be racists. And sometimes they don't really understand what racism is. It's the equivalent of "bad peopel."

What gives it away is that they are absolutely sure that all those people of colour who are on the other side must be racists too, that idea seems totally natural to them.

Respectfully, this has been discussed in depth upthread.

What is your definition of 'far right'?

Because you seem to be saying that
anyone who doesn't condemn Farage ( member of a legal and legitimate political party- note, I didn't say 'nice), 'far right', 'a problem' and 'a fascist apologist'.

This is why people are pissed off.

This is why they are marching for free speech.

Regardless of any legitimate problems experienced by minorities at the moment, calling people who want tighter controls on immigration (or even who are sick of mainstream politics and are looking for an alternative in unpalatable places) 'fascist apologist' is divisive hyperbolic nonsense.

Im curious as to what you actually mean by 'fascist apologist'? Are these people you are speaking to really going around saying 'I think the nazis had a point actually?'

Cos I don't buy that.

Anti semitism has existed everywhere for centuries, but it’s not as though Hitler and Nazism just had a blind spot about Jews and they were all perfectly lovely and rational otherwise.