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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved with Transgender, Antifascist Ideology

251 replies

defrazzled · 11/09/2025 16:06

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/charlie-kirk-shot/card/ammunition-in-kirk-shooting-engraved-with-transgender-antifascist-ideology-sources-pdymd1sXXMSlVRhpvR4b

A young father shot dead, this is horrifying.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Signalbox · 14/09/2025 11:32

The interesting thing is that we've had days of social media saying that CK is far-right, homophobe, white supremacist, racist, fascist etc. and now we are supposed to believe that he was a target of the even FURTHER right. But in reality there is no further right than the Nazis or fascists. It's frustrating because these words used to mean something.

SionnachRuadh · 14/09/2025 11:50

I was thinking back to the Pulse nightclub mass shooting in 2016. At the time I was interacting with quite a few American lefties on FB and their immediate response to the news filtering out was Oh God this had better be a Trump supporter and not a Muslim.

Then it turned out the shooter was a Muslim, and there was a very weird space of time where there was lots of speculation about whether he was closeted gay, and therefore by the transitive factor it was all the fault of Florida Republicans and conservative talk radio for making him feel ashamed of his forbidden love.

The FBI didn't find any evidence that he was gay, and they didn't track down any evidence of links to terrorist groups. The case is still quite mysterious in terms of the shooter's motives, but the simplest explanation is a man with mental health problems who radicalised himself online.

But the thing that's always stuck in my mind was politicos whose first response to a shocking tragedy was to think How will this reflect on my political tribe? I think people who get too into politics, especially the tribal kind where you're cheering on a team, lose a bit of their moral compass.

And also, people with a strong sense of How will this reflect on my tribe? should think twice before rushing onto social media to explain how a murder victim was asking for it.

nauticant · 14/09/2025 11:50

The game that Tyler Robinson referenced in the casing of the bullet he fired, Helldivers 2, actually has a mini-scandal related to furries. The developer of the game runs an official Discord server for players to have a community to talk about the game. A year or so back, a user posted furry art on the server. That wasn't that popular with the community and people reacted with vomit emojis. In retaliation those people got banned from the server.

I know that the far Right claim they have inalienable rights for all kinds of things but the right for furry art in their spaces not to be criticised is one of the more surprising ones.

By the way, I'm not suggesting any kind of connection with that Discord server and Robinson. If you have a Discord gaming server there's a reasonable likelihood there'll be furries in the mix somewhere.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2025 12:05

lcakethereforeIam · 14/09/2025 11:18

Brendan O'Neill's take in Spiked

https://archive.ph/eGLDh

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/09/12/charlie-kirk-and-the-apocalyptic-narcissism-of-trans/

He's pointing out the blue-haired, septum pierced, 'be kind' brigade are revelling in Charlie Kirk's murder. How it's consistent with how they comport themselves at events organised by people that haven't capitulated to them. The hatred they send to individuals found guilty of wrong think.

As time passes and more information comes out we may find what the shooter's motive was. Right-wing, Left-wing, nihilism, or notoriety. For the most part though a proportion of the gender ideologists are tearing their mask away and what's been revealed is depressingly unsurprising.

I will concede there may be other subcultures that are also cheering. Possibly overlooked because they don't have the same profile?

I read that earlier. Brendan O’Neill at his blistering best and he joins the dots to point out how women are in danger from unhinged trans rights activists.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2025 12:06

nauticant · 14/09/2025 11:50

The game that Tyler Robinson referenced in the casing of the bullet he fired, Helldivers 2, actually has a mini-scandal related to furries. The developer of the game runs an official Discord server for players to have a community to talk about the game. A year or so back, a user posted furry art on the server. That wasn't that popular with the community and people reacted with vomit emojis. In retaliation those people got banned from the server.

I know that the far Right claim they have inalienable rights for all kinds of things but the right for furry art in their spaces not to be criticised is one of the more surprising ones.

By the way, I'm not suggesting any kind of connection with that Discord server and Robinson. If you have a Discord gaming server there's a reasonable likelihood there'll be furries in the mix somewhere.

LOL 😂

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2025 12:06

nauticant · 14/09/2025 11:30

That to me is the main takeaway and will possibly be the most long-lasting impact. You've got the act, and the motivations, and there's going to be a massive bunfight over those that will never be resolved, and then you've got something that's far more clear. Those who danced on Kirk's grave with the greatest of delight including those so intoxicated by their joy that they've made clear they now want more of their opponents killed. That's part of the record and can't be argued away.

Exactly.

Papayatropics · 14/09/2025 12:17

thatsthewayitis · 14/09/2025 10:27

The New York Post reported that the trans-furry was his partner.
this subculture is finished

This also ties in with some of the marking on the cartridges, the text of the markings have been confirmed by the authorities. Law enforcement are also looking into the possibility that the knowledge of the assassination was part of a wider transgender network. A lot of these 22 year-old geniuses posted on Discord and some are now calling for the heads of other non-left wing commentators.

nauticant · 14/09/2025 12:25

If the authorities get Robinson to open up and discuss his motivations, or if they get access to a trove of illuminating server chats, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's shown that he actually has a mishmash of all kinds of beliefs, some coded on the far Right, some on the far Left, and possibly being contradictory, at least in parts.

What I object to is people going through a list of apparent facts having no contexts and doing a tick-list according to their biases to show that he belongs in one box and not in the other.

LemondrizzleShark · 14/09/2025 12:26

TheCatsTongue · 14/09/2025 00:51

Anyway very strange that if true and that Robinson's boyfriend was a trans furry, why are people so quick to instantly dismiss that? Especially if they are "as GC as they come"?

If it’s true, absolutely! But I haven’t seen any evidence that this room mate was his partner, or is gay, or trans, or is a furry. Except for a Facebook photo people have dug up of him wearing a Pikachu hat, and another one of him in a onesie (H&M and Debenhams sell very similar ones, so that is not exactly cast-iron evidence of his sexual preferences).

This guy has passed “incriminating texts” to the police, and has not been arrested himself. Which does not imply he was an accessory or a co-conspirator. He is getting absolutely slandered on SM, and I feel a little sorry for him if all this young kid has done is have the misfortune to share a student flat with a psychopath. Remember how poor Christopher Jeffries was hounded by the press and public and turned out to be totally innocent.

Papayatropics · 14/09/2025 12:32

LemondrizzleShark · 14/09/2025 12:26

If it’s true, absolutely! But I haven’t seen any evidence that this room mate was his partner, or is gay, or trans, or is a furry. Except for a Facebook photo people have dug up of him wearing a Pikachu hat, and another one of him in a onesie (H&M and Debenhams sell very similar ones, so that is not exactly cast-iron evidence of his sexual preferences).

This guy has passed “incriminating texts” to the police, and has not been arrested himself. Which does not imply he was an accessory or a co-conspirator. He is getting absolutely slandered on SM, and I feel a little sorry for him if all this young kid has done is have the misfortune to share a student flat with a psychopath. Remember how poor Christopher Jeffries was hounded by the press and public and turned out to be totally innocent.

American media has reported interviews with the room-mate’s family where they have talked about him “transitioning”. The FBI have used the term transgender with respect to the roommate. As much as all media have their own agenda, getting news off SM is the absolute worst.

Shortshriftandlethal · 14/09/2025 12:39

Pomni · 13/09/2025 21:04

Sigh.

The fascist one is a reference to a computer game popular with the far right.

All the references are online memes consistent with the far right.

Please read the post I wrote above for detail.

Have you ever considered that people are complex beings and do not always neatly align with their tribes 'set text' dogma. We all can agree with some types of thing, disagree with other types of thing, and we can can have sympathies, motives or preferences/tastes etc which bridge ideological divides.

It seems that some people are too keen to assign a tribe to people. If anyone, who on the surface, appears like they must be of a Left tribe does something heinous or despicable they are immediately assigned a right wing identity. As if an identity is an off the shelf costume into which you step

Shortshriftandlethal · 14/09/2025 12:44

Pomni · 14/09/2025 03:44

"Hey Fascist! Catch!" accompanied by downward arrows (↓↓←) is a direct reference to Helldivers 2, a 2024 cooperative shooter video game where players control soldiers fighting alien threats in a satirical, over-the-top fascist "Super Earth" regime.

The arrows represent the controller input sequence (down, down, left) to call in a powerful airstrike used to obliterate enemies in the game. The online Helldivers 2 community has attracted far-right gamers who embrace the militaristic themes as ironic or literal endorsements of nationalism.

Helldivers 2's subreddit was temporarily locked following the incident due to heated debates and doxxing attempts. Some analysts link this to "Groyper" culture, a far-right, meme-heavy movement led by Nick Fuentes, who has publicly feuded with Kirk for being insufficiently extreme (e.g., the 2019 "Groyper Wars" where Groypers trolled Kirk's events).

Loads of boys and young men of every stripe like playing militaristic games, or 'shoot em up' type stuff.

SionnachRuadh · 14/09/2025 12:45

Shortshriftandlethal · 14/09/2025 12:39

Have you ever considered that people are complex beings and do not always neatly align with their tribes 'set text' dogma. We all can agree with some types of thing, disagree with other types of thing, and we can can have sympathies, motives or preferences/tastes etc which bridge ideological divides.

It seems that some people are too keen to assign a tribe to people. If anyone, who on the surface, appears like they must be of a Left tribe does something heinous or despicable they are immediately assigned a right wing identity. As if an identity is an off the shelf costume into which you step

Edited

The idea that people's artistic likes, what video games or movies or TV shows they're into, is something that maps neatly onto political tribes, is so stupid that it should really be confined to the dim wokelords at TV Tropes.

I like the novels of Yukio Mishima. I like Mishima's novels because he writes beautifully and makes you think. Me liking Mishima's novels does not make me a gay Japanese fascist.

nauticant · 14/09/2025 12:55

Mishima's The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea would seem to have some relevance here.

Britinme · 14/09/2025 13:13

As I’ve been quoted above I’d like to say that the false flag idea was my first reaction and that further evidence about the shooter makes that notion incorrect. He seems to have been radicalised by gamer subculture and by being brought up in a culture that thinks guns are the answer to political differences.

SionnachRuadh · 14/09/2025 13:16

Good discussion here at Clownfish TV, who have done several great videos in the past few days, talking not so much about the murder as the reaction.

I've been following the Clownfish guys for years. They're a couple from Pennsylvania with a background as comics creators and Disney insiders, they're not a political channel but a pop culture channel, but they've chronicled a lot of the issues around cancel culture (they got death threats for not liking the She-Ra revival!) and are very good about how crazy certain online subcultures have got. Very much worth a subscribe if you like their style.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QsRLixn-LM

Britinme · 14/09/2025 13:39

I follow Heather Cox Richardson’s Substack and highly recommend it for sensible history-based discussion of what’s happening in America. Today’s issue partly discusses Kirk’s assassination - here’s the relevant extract:

”But once you have untethered the political narrative from reality, you are at the mercy of anyone who can commandeer that narrative.
In the wake of the murder of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk in Utah on Wednesday, the radical right is working to distort the country’s understanding of what happened. Long before any information emerged about who the shooter was, the president and prominent right-wing figures claimed that “the Left,” or Democrats, or just “THEY,” had assassinated Kirk.
White House deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller posted an attack on his political opponents on social media: “There is an ideology that has steadily been growing in this country which hates everything that is good, righteous and beautiful and celebrates everything that is warped, twisted and depraved. It is an ideology at war with family and nature. It is envious, malicious, and soulless. It is an ideology that looks upon the perfect family with bitter rage while embracing the serial criminal with tender warmth. Its adherents organize constantly to tear down and destroy every mark of grace and beauty while lifting up everything monstrous and foul. It is an ideology that leads, always, inevitably and willfully, to violence—violence against those [who] uphold order, who uphold faith, who uphold family, who uphold all that is noble and virtuous in this world. It is an ideology whose one unifying thread is the insatiable thirst for destruction.”
But in fact, the alleged shooter was not someone on the left. The alleged killer, Tyler Robinson, is a young white man from a Republican, gun enthusiast family, who appears to have embraced the far right, disliking Kirk for being insufficiently radical.
Rather than grappling with reality, right-wing figures are using Kirk’s murder to prop up their fictional world. Briefly, they claimed Robinson had been “radicalized” in college. Then, when it turned out he had spent only a single semester at a liberal arts college before going to trade school, MAGA pivoted to attack those who allegedly had celebrated Kirk’s death on social media.
This morning, Miller posted: “In recent days we have learned just how many Americans in positions of authority—child services, law clerks, hospital nurses, teachers, gov[ernmen]t workers, even [Department of Defense] employees—have been deeply and violently radicalized. The consequence of a vast, organized ecosystem of indoctrination.”
Today, billionaire Elon Musk, who just months ago was a key figure in the White House, reposted a spreadsheet of “people who’ve said vile things” about Kirk’s murder. Over the list, he wrote: “They are the ones poisoning the minds of our children.” “So far, teachers and professors are by far the most represented,” the author of the list wrote.
Across the country, educators have been suspended or fired for posting opinions on social media that commented on Kirk’s death in ways officials deemed inappropriate. Legal analyst Asha Rangappa noted that “Americans are being conditioned to be snitches on their fellow citizens who don’t toe a party line on what is ‘allowed’ to be expressed. And employers are going along. It’s the new secret police.”
The deliberate attempt to create a narrative centering around “us” and “them” and to mobilize violence against that other was on display today when Musk told a giant anti-immigrant rally in the United Kingdom: “You're in a fundamental situation here…where whether you choose violence or not, violence is coming to you. You either fight back or you die. You either fight back or you die. And that's the truth.”
Of course, that is not the truth. It is a classic case of dividing the world into friends and enemies—a tactic suggested by Nazi political theorist Carl Schmitt—and inciting violence against newly identified enemies by claiming it is imperative to preempt them from using violence against your friends. Miller has vowed to use the power of the government not against the far right, where the violence that killed Kirk appears to have originated, but against MAGA’s political enemies. Flipping victims and offenders, he called his political opponents “domestic terrorists” and warned: “[T]he power of law enforcement under President Trump's leadership will be used to find you, will be used to take away your money, take away your power, and, if you've broken the law, to take away your freedom.”

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2025 13:44

That’s just as biased as any other take. His family being Republican is irrelevant, Elon Musk’s trans son doesn’t share his politics, does he? There is no actual evidence that Robinson is right wing, just speculation about what the bullet engravings do or don’t mean. He’s likely an online nihilist memelord. But the little evidence as to his political beliefs, that we currently have, is not pointing to the right.

Signalbox · 14/09/2025 13:48

"But in fact, the alleged shooter was not someone on the left. The alleged killer, Tyler Robinson, is a young white man from a Republican, gun enthusiast family, who appears to have embraced the far right, disliking Kirk for being insufficiently radical."

Because young people always follow in the political footsteps of their parents.

thatsthewayitis · 14/09/2025 13:49

Yes, it's pretty obvious Robinson is on the left. His family is saying so, high school friends said so. His boyfriend is a trans-furry-gamer and the boyfriend is on the left. Their neighbor, a young man saw them holding hands and kissing, so a couple.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2025 13:58

Do people understand why I’m objecting to all this “it’s now emerged that he’s far right” stuff? I don’t like fake news. It hasn’t. There is some tenuous speculation. There is also a concerted effort to control the narrative by leftist social media and media commentators, just as people are saying the right are doing.

It may be confirmed to be the case, who knows. But it hasn’t been and people who probably are getting this third hand and taking the theories of online “experts” as gospel are authoritatively speaking as if it has. From what I’ve seen on other sites, it isn’t all that likely.

Pomni · 14/09/2025 14:12

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2025 13:58

Do people understand why I’m objecting to all this “it’s now emerged that he’s far right” stuff? I don’t like fake news. It hasn’t. There is some tenuous speculation. There is also a concerted effort to control the narrative by leftist social media and media commentators, just as people are saying the right are doing.

It may be confirmed to be the case, who knows. But it hasn’t been and people who probably are getting this third hand and taking the theories of online “experts” as gospel are authoritatively speaking as if it has. From what I’ve seen on other sites, it isn’t all that likely.

All there has been so far on all sides is speculation. The truth is we don't know yet, all we can do is look at what's likely.

The only real evidence we have is that Tyler Robinson handed himself in and is in custody, and the things he wrote on the casings.

Jumping to conclusions about what the casings mean (e.g. assuming it must be anti fascist) is perhaps understandable but misguided as it betrays a lack of understanding of youth subcultures online.

Far right nut jobs don't need a lot of encouragement to go after left wingers IRL and I'm not going to stand by and say nothing when it seems obvious there's a lot more to it, and this young man was likely influenced by the far right, given the evidence we have just now.

Here's a video you should watch, for example.

"A quick crash course in blackpill accelerationism: the memes are the ideology.”

https://x.com/citizengatsby/status/1967009991719874959

https://x.com/citizengatsby/status/1967009991719874959

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2025 14:17

No, there are actual media reports which go further than the kind of tenuous speculation you’re indulging in. The leak about the bullet casings to Steven Crowder was correct in that they were engraved with messages, the jury is still out on whether they are linked to “trans/antifa ideology” and any online assertions that they mean he is “far right” are just people mouthing off online.

EasternStandard · 14/09/2025 14:20

Pomni · 14/09/2025 14:12

All there has been so far on all sides is speculation. The truth is we don't know yet, all we can do is look at what's likely.

The only real evidence we have is that Tyler Robinson handed himself in and is in custody, and the things he wrote on the casings.

Jumping to conclusions about what the casings mean (e.g. assuming it must be anti fascist) is perhaps understandable but misguided as it betrays a lack of understanding of youth subcultures online.

Far right nut jobs don't need a lot of encouragement to go after left wingers IRL and I'm not going to stand by and say nothing when it seems obvious there's a lot more to it, and this young man was likely influenced by the far right, given the evidence we have just now.

Here's a video you should watch, for example.

"A quick crash course in blackpill accelerationism: the memes are the ideology.”

https://x.com/citizengatsby/status/1967009991719874959

I don’t think you know.