Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved with Transgender, Antifascist Ideology

[defrazzled]

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/charlie-kirk-shot/card/ammunition-in-kirk-shooting-engraved-with-transgender-antifascist-ideology-sources-pdymd1sXXMSlVRhpvR4b

A young father shot dead, this is horrifying.

Sigh. Did you watch Adolescence?

Yes, this is real life not a TV show but a lot of the themes are the same. In particular, adults not understanding youth / online / alt right culture.

Instead of arguing the toss here, why don't you go find out why the specific things he wrote imply far right influence?

No one is saying being online a lot = fat right. It's about the specific things he said and the context.

Let's wait and see how it plays out. I don't think there's much point arguing the toss here any further at this point tbh.

Absent any further evidence, we're just going round in circles.

Yes I watched Adolescence. I actually made the point myself about that programme before you at the very end of the main FWR Charlie Kirk thread this morning. Don’t patronise me, you don’t know what I’ve read and what I haven’t.

I agree. Stop assuming that only you know anything about this because you’ve read some shitty thinkpiece or whatever.

And I just saw the boyfriend's discord anime avatar; blue haired female with tongue out and lion paws.
I don't want to know any more....the whole furry thing is just so depraved.

And you’ve never had any evidence, so stop spreading unsubstantiated internet speculation as fact.

Pomni, good on you for reading about these subcultures and trying to understand them. But neither you nor the mainstream sources you’re relying on can get a good handle on this stuff within a couple of days. You are no authority on this subject and nor are they. You are one of the adults who has “misunderstood the references and jumped to the conclusions they expected (or even wanted) to see.”

I've seen similar stuff in multiple left-wing spaces today, so I suppose the Batsignal must have gone out.

I think there's some motivated reasoning behind which goes like this:

"We've been saying for 10 years that Trump is Hitler. Trump has let us down by stubbornly refusing to become Hitler. But this could be the big one, this could be the Reichstag Fire moment that allows him to really abolish democracy and institute fascism like we know he wants to."

(Interesting that in left wing internet culture it's still universally believed that the Reichstag Fire was a false flag, which the communists claimed for decades, but almost all historians agree that Marinus van der Lubbe really did do it.)

I don’t think we know that is his boyfriend do we? Everything I have seen has just said “room mate”. They could fucking hate each other for all we know.

Well we do know what he does to people he hates...

Though it gives me a chance to share one of my favourite DM stories ever

'Neo-Nazi furries' uproar causes convention cancelation | Daily Mail Online

The left seems to have a lot of weird historical myths, like there being no evidence that Jesus was a real person, or the female pope one.

TBH I've lost track of what is left or right wing now, and after Starmer's constant use of the term "far-right" I roll my eyes at the term. Knowing the difference between men and women is not far-right, nor harmful, nor hateful.

I think it's a fairly safe assumption to make that the killer opposed Kirk's views. The killer appears to have been terminally online, a former classmate described him as a Reddit kid. Now with all the celebratory nonsense put out online this week, it is that sort of stuff those terminally online kids consume which fuels their hatred.

There is a desperation by those who have fuelled the hatred not to "point fingers", but that has now moved onto pointing fingers at the same far-right they accused Kirk of being. When in doubt blame the far-right. Online memes are apparently far-right too.

Then you have trans ideology which revolves around victimisation, it overlaps Incel culture a lot, but without the criticism.

I can see a toxic mix of stuff here, but for some they don't want to look at their behaviour that influenced this nutter.

Call yourself far-left or far-right, whatever, but do not justify murder because of political views.

The “Reddit kid” TikTok was so amusingly contemptuous. Sick burn!

Bumping this article which I linked earlier.

I have a theory that a lot of left wing intellectual culture descends from Frederick Engels, and not in a good way. Engels was a brilliant man but was a terrible dabbler and very prone to confidently bullshitting about subjects he'd maybe read one book about, and then his speculations got grandfathered into Marxism no matter how wild they were.

There was a genuinely brilliant mathematician called Jean van Heijenoort who at one time was Trotsky's secretary, and who was asked to write an article about Engels' contribution to mathematics, and had to politely say that Engels should have stayed well away from mathematics.

I'm not a mathematician but I once studied anthropology, and when I meet left wing academics who still think Engels was the last word on anthropology, I instantly take them about as seriously as I take that right wing anthropologist on YouTube who's always banging on about black men's todgers.

This is mental. The messages on the bullet casings don't prove anything in themselves. For the simple reason that Robinson was so far into ironic online meme culture that, taking one message as an example, posting a meme relating to furries could be:
him assassinating Kirk on their behalf;
ironically appearing to do so while hating furries;
including a random message for the LOLs, imagining boomers talking about it earnestly at a Police press conference; or
something else.

You went from accusing people of showing bias, while confidently saying the evidence points to alt right, and saying this is more like than a furry boyfriend, to let’s wait and see real quick.

I’d love to see the ‘evidence’ you were referring to earlier? The only thing seemed to be he played a certain game, and seemed to be a lot of extrapolation from there.

He's called a roomate-boyfriend and Robinson was into an antifa-trans-gaming discord; all his friends are that...

But of course, if you come to this with the preconceived notion that Robinson must be far Right, then the possibilities collapse down into a very simple answer.

There's a War of Narratives ramping up. Both the Right and the Left are going to be busy at work. Sod the evidence.

There's evidence that Jesus was a real person?!

Yes, there’s definitely a ‘narrative war’ occurring.

Seems like the roommate is cooperating with FBI, and sharing messages etc, so I suppose it will come out eventually

Yes, most historians agree there was a real historical man called Jesus who was crucified at the time

I'm not saying there wasn't - just that there's no evidence that there was. Most historians don't deal with the issue precisely because of the dearth of evidence (theologians aren't historians, and the gospels aren't history) - there's just nothing for them to examine. Tacitus and Suetonius mention early Christians and their beliefs but not a real historical man corresponding to the gospel Jesus. The early Christian interpolations in Josephus suggest that the absence of such evidence was a concern at the time. Merely questioning the evidence isn't a conspiracy theory or left wing.

I just said most historians agree he existed, and that there is evidence.

Evidence and proof aren’t the same thing.