Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved with Transgender, Antifascist Ideology

[defrazzled]

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/charlie-kirk-shot/card/ammunition-in-kirk-shooting-engraved-with-transgender-antifascist-ideology-sources-pdymd1sXXMSlVRhpvR4b

A young father shot dead, this is horrifying.

@BaronMunchausen
Carrier has written extensively on this - I don’t really understand his Bayesian probability stuff, but his field knowledge is solid.

This is sub trend in field of academic history - to apply quantitative methods to assertions made about uncertain historical subjects; so it's not original with Carrier, but he does an excellent job of utilizing it. My very clumsy reference to an expanded body of data-points being consistent with a historical Jesus was an attempt to allude to it. With respect to Carrier, it addresses, among other things, the issue of a hypothetical conclusion X that depends on probable propositions a, b, c - if a, b, and c are necessary and sufficient for X, independent, and each 75% likely to be true, then X is statistically somewhat unlikely to be true. Most people would be surprised by that and rather expect X to be true. The use of numerical methods provides a way of testing the strength of arguments, applying Occam Razor in a continuous way and defending against that psychological phenomena. Of course it can also be used to make argument appear stronger than they are but Carrier exercises considerable care to use in ways that are valid and to not overstate the results.

Paul’ Epistles are of course (with the possible exception of Hebrews) the oldest thing in the NT rather than in the Bible.

Yes, that was me being careless.

The latest news tonight says the killer became more left leaning after entering a relationship with a man who was "changing to a woman' (obviously not actually possible so he was delutional too).

All the MN declaring he shot CK because he wasn't right enough . 🙄

It's been confirmed it was his boyfriend, a trans identified bloke who thought he could change to a woman.

"The timing is impossible to ignore. Whether one agrees with Kirk’s politics or not, the fact remains that he died while addressing an issue he had long been targeted for: his criticisms of identity politics, radical gender ideology, and the violent tendencies that too often emerge from the radical left."

They’ve released alleged messages between the shooter and his trans boyfriend. They are so contrived.

I’m not sure I know of many 22 year old young men that text like that. There’s whole sentences - according to my kids, that’s the tell of Boomers texting. Do they say “my love”? Or “vehicle” instead of ‘car’?

Nobody talks like that. It’s complete fabrication. It reads like the script of an amateur play.

Beginning of a new conspiracy theory, he didn't do it, its a set up etc.... 😂

The court case will have to present evidence and his defence will be able to challenge it. Is it so hard to believe a young person in a relationship with a man (who thinks he can become a woman, whilst also a possible 'furry') from a family with strong religious beliefs (potentially anti gay relationships) might be angry and do something extreme..... really messed up

Duplicate post so deleted

You can't imagine a 22 year old man using Boomer type language?

You don't know many Mormons, do you?

Or the fact this was a son of someone in law enforcement so may well have referred to car as ‘vehicle’.

If I may put on tin foil, it reads like he intentionally wanted his boyfriend to sound innocent, and texted him to imply this.

Tbf US English would use vehicle or auto instead of car. Car was one of the words “translated” in the Harry Potter books in the US publications.

as for the text, it does read oddly formal for a young man. I constantly get the piss taken out of me by my dc the same age for writing like that, and one of them lives in an area where there are many Mormons.

bottom line though from one message we have no way to know whether that’s his natural writing style or not. They’d need to publish a large volume of his writing to be able to judge. Presumably a half decent lawyer would be able to take it apart if it’s very much at odds with how he usually writes.

although I’m starting to doubt whether this man will get a fair trial. He’s been found guilty by social media already, DT is planning on signing the death penalty with no appeal, half the IS seem to want him publicly executed with no trail at all.

Lol yes it will definitely encourage conspiracy theorists. Candace Owens is already insinuating Israel might have been involved because Kirk was shifting his view on Gaza.

Doesn’t change the fact it reads like fiction though. I guess they will be able to compare the messages to other messages between them and see if it follows their usual communication style. Perhaps they always talk like that in which case it’s a non story.

Thank you for the insights into the Mormon aspects, Foxy. Really interesting (and not unlike a strand in Irish culture).

'Left wing' and Right wing' no longer have any meaning. They used to - I post the link to the good old political compass from time to time - they have updated it slightly, and I've been radicalised - not so much by Mumsnet but by all the STUFF, but there I still am in the left liberal quadrant, same as I always was.

www.politicalcompass.org/test/en

For some of the young and the witless, by believing in sex, disapproving of murder, thinking truth is important and that debate is necessary, I put myself in a place that many of them would view as far right.

I don’t know any Mormons and you are right it might just be a cultural difference in language. But I don’t think it’s boomer language. I know plenty of boomers and they don’t communicate like this.

Yes from what I’m seeing on social media US politics seems to be very black or white.

if you believe twaw, and abortion is healthcare you are also pro Palestine because you are left wing.

if you are right wing you are pro gun, pro life (birth), Christian, and support Israel.

it jarred a little reading a post this morning because it doesn’t seem to be an option that you can two “opposing” views.

i don’t believe you can change sex. I am Christian, I’m pro choice, pro life in that healthcare should be available right and gun control, and I admit I am not well enough informed on the Israel/palestine debate to argue an opinion.

which makes me a “leftie” on balance. But it doesn’t mean I can’t agree with the right on some things.

although I’m starting to doubt whether this man will get a fair trial. He’s been found guilty by social media already, DT is planning on signing the death penalty with no appeal, half the IS seem to want him publicly executed with no trail at all.

It sad that high profile cases like this will never receive a fair trial in the US. It’s just bizarre that everything gets published and analysed pre trial. It must be virtually impossible to find members for the jury who haven’t already formed a firm opinion based on what they’ve read in the media.

They tend to be slightly old fashioned in their language, not to the point of "thee" or "thou" but you meet 19 year old missionaries who sound very middle aged.

It might be him being the son of a cop which would affect his vocabulary, it might just be that he's got a very idiosyncratic way of expressing himself.

But I can already see the idea springing up that the texts must be fake, and my word, the conspiracy theories are all around the world before he's even stood trial.

If you believe twaw, and abortion is healthcare you are also pro Palestine because you are left wing.if you are right wing you are pro gun, pro life (birth), Christian, and support Israel.

I'm a lesbian, conservative, polytheist, a feminist, I support abortion and women's rights, am pro-gun, pro Israel. The difference is the right won't throw me out for having differing views. I've a good gay friend who's a Log Cabin Republican anti-vaxxer. I was vaccinated but support those who didn't. It's fine to disagree and discuss.

He isn't the son of someone in law enforcement - TR's dad is in the construction business. Possbly the law enforcement confusion arose from a family friend who was an ex-sheriff who may have accompanied TR when he handed himself in.

On the notes - I've been thinking the same - if they were made up it was likely to make the partner look innocent. They don't read a bit suss but could just be cultural differences.

I think the same @InWalksBarberalla

Tbf US English would use vehicle or auto instead of car. Car was one of the words “translated” in the Harry Potter books in the US publications.

As a Springsteen fan, I must say this surprises me!

It wasn't translated in the US publications, this poster is incorrect.

Car park was translated to parking lot and there were some others but car is not one of them.

Then again, and this will be a function of when and where I grew up, I will often say motor. This will earn me funny looks when I say something like the cat is sitting under the motor.

Someone saying vehicle instead of car doesn't automatically set off alarm bells with me. Where if he used a phrase like "routine traffic stop", you would guess either cop, or someone who frequently gets pulled over by cops.

Hell, I was almost right. The text on the bullet casings was almost as stupid as I wrote here.