Women’s privacy and dignity

[Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks]

I’ve just been to my local leisure centre swimming pool and while I was in the changing rooms a woman walked in from the showers, fully naked. I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me (and I fully accept I may well have imagined it) felt a bit pointed. I felt vaguely uncomfortable and embarrassed in the same way I would have if a man had walked in naked.

My impression is that the vast majority of people on this forum believe that it is a fundamental breach of women’s privacy and dignity if people with male biology (whether cisgender men or trans women) share changing facilities with women. Yet they do not consider that it undermines a woman’s privacy or dignity to have to get changed in front of other women, or to see other women naked.

I understand that many women have had experiences with men’s exhibitionist or voyeuristic behaviour which makes them specifically uncomfortable being undressed around men, or being around men who are undressed. But I’ve often seen the argument on here that it equally undermines men’s privacy and dignity to have to share changing facilities with women.

So my question is, do you think privacy and dignity are not infringed by having to get changed in front of people of the same sex? If not, why not?

'You keep (conveniently) missing the relevant part to why trans women should have access & that's no proven harm to women.'

What part is that? You have not shown that male inclusion has not harmed women or children at all. Your demands for proof will always go nowhere because some of the harms are not reportable and women are generally not reporting when they experience abuse because there is no trust in the police to act on that report.

However, there IS proven harm to women already. You seem to have dismissed women and girls individual reports in the media.

How many additional women and girls being attacked or harmed in anyway in female single sex spaces are acceptable to you before we can expect to exclude ALL male people above the age of 8 years old?

You can disagree with it all you like but your disagreement is irrelevant.

Trans women are men.

We don't give a fuck what happens in other countries. Just because they have decided to be misogynistic hell holes doesn't mean we have to follow their example.

Police reports are false data are they?

Here we go again….😂

My police report wasn’t false data.

go on and laugh at that.

Iv'e posted the researched police data on changed bathroom laws repeatedly. You know that.

THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT TRANS IDENTIFYING MEN ARE A RISK TO WOMEN

1. prison data shows they commit sexual offences at a higher rate than other men

2. I’ve given you a real life example -Katie Dolotowski

And I’ve posted repeatedly.

And you just laugh.

So we're supposed to accept your police data but you don't have to accept our conviction data?

How does that work then?

🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

“But laws aren't necessarily moral or ethical.”

Just marking this as another red flag statement to go with yesterday’s ’safeguarding is being weaponised’ statement.

You do that dear.

I'm off for today. Be back tomorrow with the same links….

I agree wholeheartedly that it is a huge issue.

To be fair, he's not wrong about that.

All of the laws, in all these so-called "progressive" countries worldwide, which say that women cannot say no to men who identify as women, are deeply immoral and unethical.

No it does not. No 'class' ever uses 'bathroom' in Australia. Ever. And we use the oxford online dictionary or the cambridge online dictionary. Not the yank merriam one.

Every phrase you use caught you out. Googling usernames is also interesting. Or maybe it's insta that is interesting.

What for?

Women's answer will still be no and you need to respect that.

We'll be back here with our same links and screenshots. You'll never win. But thanks for bumping this thread up.

And stats:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/breakdown_of_offences_committed
In the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2021/22, table 2.1 lists the total number of transgender prisoners held as part of the prisoner population in England & Wales.
Specifically for the March 31st 2021 dataset:
Of the 207 transgender prisoners recorded
10 persons had a GRC
197 had no GRC
Of the 197 persons with no GRC 97 (49%) were serving time for sex crimes

Feel free to check the number of rapes which in UK law can only be carried out by a (male ) penis

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1

Rape
(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
(3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.

And if you don’t respect it in this country, the law will make you, thank goodness

Setting aside the legitimacy of the claim that there is no 'proven harm to women', is there proven harm to women for allowing access to gay men? Or any other subgroups of men?

I’ll be here saying no.

it’s that simple for me. No.

And anyone who tries to overrule that is not someone who understands consent.

The abuse was the belittling of Taztoy as a sexual assault survivor and dismissing her voice the way you have.

But that’s on men to solve. If some men feel unsafe in male spaces that is for men to sort out. Go take it up with them. Men are not allowed in women’s soaces even if they really would feel more comfortable. Go work with men on inclusivity.

@Howseitgoin

Can you please confirm whether you support the census data of 2021 that reported approximately 48 000 male people with the transgender identity of 'woman' or 'girl' in the UK?

Just so we can establish what the population numbers are ?

Good on you for showing you are classist.

Please feel free to provide proof (or any evidence) that any of your male subgroups in the UK have the same or lower offending rates for sex crimes as women in the UK.

Please take care of yourself, Taztoy. There is no need to trouble yourself with this idiot, there are plenty of us here who can handle it on your behalf. Hope you have the chance for a breather and a cup of tea and a peaceful day ahead.