Palestine Action protests

[BettyBooper]

I do realise that this is the FWR board, but there are some undercurrents of similarity, which is my interest.

Palestine Action has be proscribed as a terrorist organisation. This protest (to my understanding) was about that decision, not about the issue in Palestine itself.

I'm concerned that what was about Palestine is now in sizable number (as reported), elderly people protesting in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation.

You can protest about Palestine without supporting this organisation. So what's happening here?

I think my concern is that bad actors are using well meaning people to push an ideology. Which is the similarity with gender ideology and hence me posting here.

Again, my concern is that the protest appears to be in support of a group rather than the cause.

If people can't see the difference between supporting PA and supporting people's rights to criticise the government's classification of PA as a 'terrorist group', then we are getting into very difficult territory.

I might have misunderstood, but AFAIU I don't think it is illegal merely to criticise Parliament's decision to classify PA as a terrorist group.

You can do that while not being a supporter of PA – indeed you've just done so yourself.

So there's another difference people need to bear in mind.

There's multiple videos by Konstantin Kisin and others on YT showing how ignorant people on the hate marches are. There's evidence out there, you just need to look for it

I haven't seen silence around the other conflicts at all, there's lots of activism going on in the UK about conflicts in several regions - you could get involved easily if you want to look into it

Oh come off it...the obsession with Gaza is absolutely off the chart. It's old fashioned Jew hate spruced up a bit to appear palatable...yuk.

Alternatively "it's very obvious the GC/anti trans cause is routed in hatred of gay people/gender non conforming people. It's the same shit that existed around section 28 repackaged. Shame on the women on here who fell for it to appear moral. As further proof look to people like Matt Walsh/religious right who support the same cause."
It isn't always bad to draw lines/similarities between different causes. But you can't just decide you know people's thoughts in one case and therefore they are the same as another group of people you mind read earlier.

Someone with another stance to you could say "people arguing that Gender Critical women are being anti trans and therefore alsogay are THE SAME as people arguing that pro-palestine protesters are anti Israel and therefore anti Semitic". You can basically make any argument you want to fit your stance. You aren't really adding any new information or meaning.

Then how do you explain why the Global March to Gaza was going to the wrong place?

Agree with all of thus ^

Another similarity you could draw is the (apparent) reluctance on some parts of the left to talk about grooming gangs for fear of appearing racist (because immigrants taking the women is a far right talking point). And that not only did that allow the abuse of children to continue but that, in the long run, it enabled genuine far right propaganda against ethnic minorities more of a foothold.
Likewise, not wanting to criticise Israel's actions in Gaza for fear of encouraging anti-Semitic narratives (because untrue stories about Jews killing children is historically anti-Semitic talking point) is likely to backfire...

You can draw all sorts of contradictory parallels between different things to suite your pre-existing positions.

I don't think there is any shortage of people, or any reluctance to criticise Israel's actions in Gaza. Quite the opposite.

Why bother quoting part of my post out of context? Because it gave a very clear reason why your absurd argument is untrue and that theres logical reasons why protests against our government re Gaza are taking place compared to protests against our government about any other regions conflict?

If you don't want to argue my point, don't take a small part of my post to make a false accusations of "Jew hating", it's lazy. Although I suppose it makes sense why you want to take a line of my post out of context- didn't feel like calling Holocaust survivors Jew haters I guess?

Right, and they should be allowed to do so, but I would draw the line with people trying to blame it on "the Jews" etc etc and there are definitely people trying to do so. My point was really comedycook's argument that most of the pro-palestine protests were coming from a place of antisemitism. I think it's problematic when you assume that, even if in some cases it might well be true. You can't shut down criticism (and that goes for everything, economic policy, migration, etc) with the argument that extremists also try to use those things to cause trouble.

I never accused you of Jew hate. I'm talking about the pro Palestine movement broadly both in the UK and abroad. The world appears to be utterly obsessed with it.

And no I don't believe the protests are just because the UK is allies with Israel....the UK has been cosy with all manner of dubious regimes and governments over time.

Never said you accused me of Jew hate. I said you wanted to call supported of Palestine Jews haters and therefore had to cut my post so you weren't called Holocaust survivors Jew haters. If you wanna make that point, go ahead but why take a snippet out of context?

My whole post which made particular reference to why Palestine movement is protesting in the UK including many Jewish groups and Holocaust survivors. Rather than engaging in a critique of any of the actual reasons you want to smear people protesting a genocide that our government has an actual role in and has loudly supported for over a year as "Jew hate". It's a real lazy and uninformed argument unless you're gonna back it up with any logic...which you haven't. I think it's sad you're thinking the world is utterly obsessed with being horrified that a war is slaughtering mostly women and small children, that peopl are suffering a man made famine and our politicians are doing th bare minimum to stop it - gosh why don't people stop being so obsessed 🙄

Absolutely, I don't think I've met anyone who describes themselves as gender critical and also supports Palestine - one is the antithesis of the other.

I have no idea what this is about or what it has to do with the PA demonstration.

I know many leftwing feminists who are both GC and pro-Palestinian. I take it you are not in the UK or Ireland where gender criticality has been primarily a leftwing cause, rather than the right wing cause it is frequently painted as.

I'm in the south of England and have attended many gender critical events and meetings where I met myriad left wing feminists who were all fervently pro-Israel.

Call me old fashioned but I thought the onus was on the person making an assertion to provide evidence. I’ve not heard of this Kisin chap but google tells me he is a Russian comedian so I would take his opinions with a very large pinch of salt.

The degree of media exposure and public protest enjoyed by the other conflicts is incomparable to the focus on Israel-Palestine. Look at the number of UN resolutions against Israel vs the entire rest of the world. People like to say it’s because other conflicts are nothing to do with us but that’s disingenuous and untrue. Firstly the focus on Israel is of a completely different magnitude. Secondly, we sell arms to loads of countries, including Saudi Arabia and China.

Personally, I think it boils down to "people who are GC should (and often are) support Israel because..." Versus "people who are GC should support Palestine/be against the killings in Gaza because...). It's forced teaming either way.

Personally though I don’t think the reason for the excessive focus is just anti-semitism, although that’s a factor for some. I think it’s mostly because has been a fashionable leftist cause for decades, partly driven by a successful Palestinian propaganda campaign. Note terms like ‘literal genocide’ and how these are thrown around so much they become accepted as an agreed fact, just like twaw.

Genuinely not to debate but can you explain what's wrong with.the map you showed. I thought Rafah was the main crossing point to Gaza from Egypt? It's on the news a lot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah

It was directly addressing your claim that "Of course everyone with an active interest in the ongoing conflict can point to Palestine on a map."

I was pointing out that the Global March to Gaza who were actively trying to reach Gaza could not point to it on a map.

But a lot of the media attention is due to the relevancy of the role of our air force and our politicians. There's a reason most of the coverage involves action or lack of action of these forces. Unless you're a actively protesting the other conflicts I don't think you'd be saying too much public protest is being "enjoyed" at other causes and given you're informed of the other conflicts you are seeing coverage of them. Do you really not see any relevancy of our media reporting on what our prime minister, foreign secretaries etc are doing or saying about a thousands of women and small children, journalists and health workers being killed by one of our allies?

Sure. Compare the Google Map image with the 'Global March to Gaza' image.

Oh I see it now. I thought you were criticising them for going to Rafah but it's just that Rafah is marked further South on the map than it should be. Weird.