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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's 'Private Spaces'

1000 replies

Howseitgoin · 26/08/2025 03:45

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well?
Thoughts?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:44

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:35

"You miss the point about gender stereotypes, it seems.
Yes, lots of women behave in accordance with gender stereotypes. And many more are expected so to do. (That's what "stereotype" means.) But some (many) of these stereotypes are deleterious to women. I might want my granddaughter to be a doctor, not a nurse, for instance, for her benefit and that of wider society.
Or I might be pleased if a child, asked to draw a scientist, drew a woman in a dress (yes, another stereotype, I know ...) rather than a man in a white coat.
OK, you get the point? - Some gendered behaviours, expectations, etc., may be bad for women. Attempts to reinforce such stereotypical behaviours and expectations, then, as connected with womanhood, is a particular aspect of a form of sexism: such attempts are anti-women.
However, it's precisely this you advocate in your posts about trans-identified men being considered womanly because of their attempts to copy behaviours associated with women."

You are confused. I'm not prescribing behaviours. I'm describing them. And what's more as much as you disavow stereotypes you're most likely living one & also categorising sex based on them…unknowingly. Our reptilian brains work at an unconscious level so quickly based on archetypical associations when it comes to sex you don't even know you are doing it.

Whilst I take your point that some gendered behaviours are socialised rather than organic, the overwhelming incidence of sexed coded behaviours point to organic & this only makes sense as personality traits are influenced by genes & hormones in utero.

"Can you see how such behaviour - as well as your advocacy - is, indeed, basically and fundamentally sexist in its treatment of gender stereotypes? - Think about it, anyway."

Can you see how your denial of biological reality as uncomfortable as it is & advocacy is, indeed, basically & fundamentally ignorant in its treatment of facts?Think about, it anyway.

Edited

And this is what you get when you do try to respond with gentle reasoning to this poster.

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:45

For @Howseitgoin

How many additional women and girls being attacked or harmed in anyway in female single sex spaces are acceptable to you before we can expect to exclude ALL male people above the age of 8 years old?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2025 12:46

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:14

Leaving aside the reliability of google AI, as nobody is carrying out personality tests to verify gender identity, that is all completely irrelevant.

There's this concept called 'links to research' but why bother when you can consult the exceptional brain power of mumsnet cultist cookers eh?

How about the concept of backing up your turgid sexist nonsense with actual evidence and explaining how said evidence supports your claim? No one is interested in your vague appeals to authority.

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:47
Wren Building Squirrel GIF by William & Mary

almost 1000 posts guys!

Let's blow the Mumsnet record sky high! WOOP! WOOP!

Couldn't have done it without all those dedicated cookers out there, pat on the back to my loyal dancing squirrels 🐿🐿🐿

And on my debutante outing too. AND AND I'm just warming up….

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:47

Just putting this link here in a different form.

transcrimeuk (dot) com

For anyone who believes that somehow declaring a transgender identity reduces the male pattern criminality of male people with a transgender identity.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2025 12:48

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:47

almost 1000 posts guys!

Let's blow the Mumsnet record sky high! WOOP! WOOP!

Couldn't have done it without all those dedicated cookers out there, pat on the back to my loyal dancing squirrels 🐿🐿🐿

And on my debutante outing too. AND AND I'm just warming up….

Edited

MRAs gonna MRA.

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:50

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:47

almost 1000 posts guys!

Let's blow the Mumsnet record sky high! WOOP! WOOP!

Couldn't have done it without all those dedicated cookers out there, pat on the back to my loyal dancing squirrels 🐿🐿🐿

And on my debutante outing too. AND AND I'm just warming up….

Edited

What record?

Speed of filling up? Nah. This one was very slow.

Or are you limefinch and this is the longest that you have been able to stay without the ban hammer? Because no one reported you this time.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2025 12:50

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:45

For @Howseitgoin

How many additional women and girls being attacked or harmed in anyway in female single sex spaces are acceptable to you before we can expect to exclude ALL male people above the age of 8 years old?

Luckily, it has the square root of fuck all to do with this poster whether he approves of women and girls not wanting men and boys in female single sex spaces. I pity the Australian women he comes into contact with IRL.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/08/2025 12:52

Can you see how your denial of biological reality [that women have a certain personality type]

from the OP’s recent post. In a way it’s helpful to see him making straight up MRA arguments. Proves that’s all there is to ‘trans’ really

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/08/2025 12:52

Can you see how your denial of biological reality [that women have a certain personality type]

from the OP’s recent post. In a way it’s helpful to see him making straight up MRA arguments. Proves that’s all there is to ‘trans’ really

Merrymouse · 27/08/2025 12:52

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:47

almost 1000 posts guys!

Let's blow the Mumsnet record sky high! WOOP! WOOP!

Couldn't have done it without all those dedicated cookers out there, pat on the back to my loyal dancing squirrels 🐿🐿🐿

And on my debutante outing too. AND AND I'm just warming up….

Edited

Aah it's felt just like the old days when MRAs were just blatantly misogynistic. The warm glow of impotent fury that women have rights.

Igneococcus · 27/08/2025 12:52

Every single one of these threads will peak a few more people and strengthen the determination of those who already peaked. It's all good.

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:53

MRAs gonna MRA.

& Cookers gonna cook! 🤪

OP posts:
Keeptoiletssafe · 27/08/2025 12:54

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:14

Leaving aside the reliability of google AI, as nobody is carrying out personality tests to verify gender identity, that is all completely irrelevant.

There's this concept called 'links to research' but why bother when you can consult the exceptional brain power of mumsnet cultist cookers eh?

I have the scientific and academic research. What there is. There needs to be a central database of toilet incidents. The police and government departments need to look at this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2025 12:54

I love cooking. Not sure why you think that’s an insult. Some MRA jargon, I guess.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/08/2025 12:54

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:47

almost 1000 posts guys!

Let's blow the Mumsnet record sky high! WOOP! WOOP!

Couldn't have done it without all those dedicated cookers out there, pat on the back to my loyal dancing squirrels 🐿🐿🐿

And on my debutante outing too. AND AND I'm just warming up….

Edited

It’s fine chicken. Women who enjoy playing with their food will engage with you and those who can’t be arsed will ignore you. Either way, we’ll all still be here talking to each other

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2025 12:55

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/08/2025 12:54

It’s fine chicken. Women who enjoy playing with their food will engage with you and those who can’t be arsed will ignore you. Either way, we’ll all still be here talking to each other

Haha perfectly put 💅

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:56

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

Just for anyone seeing this link posted again, you might find this useful.

I believe this document discusses those crime statistics

escholarship.org/content/qt7c3704zg/qt7c3704zg.pdf?t=qqfomk&v=lg

It refers to 369 trans people vs 435 061 people who were not trans identified in a study.

How strange that that was not mentioned at all in the press release!!

I might have forgotten most of what I learned from my Statistics module at uni but 0.0008 is not a population that you could draw many confident conclusions from. And it would be ridiculous to make the comparison.

Think about this from the point of view that women around the world admit they don’t bother to report their sexual assaults and rapes. Because they have no confidence that they will get justice AND not be vilified in the process.

What % of females actively reporting their attacks vs current trend of not bothering to report would decimate that 369 figure?

And that number cannot be accurately depicted in this point either;

”About half of all violent victimizations were not reported to police. Transgender people were as likely as cisgender people to report violence to police.”

Sure this 'maybe'. However, I believe the huge number of women telling us they don’t report.

This article is misrepresenting the reality.

I also bring to your attention this as it is relevant to your claim:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

Including! Notice it says ‘including’!

Not ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.”

What was NOT included was a handy breakdown of what constituted the crimes against trans people were. What was the bar for a hate crime being committed for instance? Misogyny? Does that fit the definition that holds for transphobic hate crimes?

And based on 369 people, I am not going to delve into that national dataset to look for it. I don’t have the will. Maybe if you wish to prove your point, you could link to that data with the breakdown of the actual crimes reported for those 369 people.

“One in four transgender women who were victimized thought the incident was a hate crime compared to less than one in ten cisgender women.”

How many females being taught how to accurately assess the motivation against them as to whether it constituted a hate crime, or indeed using the very same frames of reference as trans people do but based on sexism, and then reanswering that same survey would again make that point meaningless? Is misogyny a ‘hate crime’ for instance?

Do people understand the significance of what centuries of oppression of females has done on being able to accurately assess the motivation of crimes against our sex?

I am beginning to. The trans lobby groups are informing my learnings. Because of what they classify as ‘transphobic hate crimes’ when I look at what I have experienced as a female… wow! I sure have overlooked a huge amount of what I just waved away as crap from males.

And that the group who are trans could include many of those reporting abuse that includes misgendering and perceived micro-aggressions. Gosh, imagine if women reported all the hateful things said and done to them on a daily basis.
Crimes that cause harm and pain to anyone should be fully investigated and justice served.

But if a claim such as ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.” is going to be made by any institution or poster, it needs to be based on some very robust data.

Plus it should not be able to be argued against using other knowledge such as the prevalence of females who don’t report their rapes and attacks.

Because it then fails to show integrity by making any reference to those other studies and statistics. It may not even need to make adjustments for that information, but it should make the reader aware of the limitations of the study and its conclusions.

https://escholarship.org/content/qt7c3704zg/qt7c3704zg.pdf?t=qqfomk&v=lg

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/08/2025 12:56

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2025 12:54

I love cooking. Not sure why you think that’s an insult. Some MRA jargon, I guess.

Me too. Struggling to understand what the issue with cooking is for the OP

it’s the least of his problems in terms of clarity though really I suppose

Boiledbeetle · 27/08/2025 12:57
Squirrel Come At Me Bro GIF

If you're going to use a squirrel gif OP at least use the best one!

juldan · 27/08/2025 12:58

@Howseitgoin “ Can you see how your denial of biological reality as uncomfortable as it is & advocacy is, indeed, basically & fundamentally ignorant in its treatment of facts?Think about, it anyway.”

The only person denying biological reality is you. Transwomen are biological males. This is the biological reality.

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 12:58

I love cooking. Not sure why you think that’s an insult. Some MRA jargon, I guess

Gotta love a bit of Wik:

"In Australian slang, "cooker" is a derogatory term used to describe someone perceived as a conspiracy theorist, particularly those involved in protests against things like vaccine mandates or lockdowns. It implies that their beliefs are so extreme or unfounded that their "brain has been cooked" by exposure to conspiracy theories according to Wikipedia"

Australian English vocabulary - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English_vocabulary

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:58

Cookers is the Australian derogatory slang for someone who is a conspiracy theorist.

Mate... this is just more projection from you.

You are very much lighting up that Materhorn peak that is growing beside you as you type one handed.

  • cooker: a derogatory term for a person involved in protests against vaccine mandates, lockdowns and a range of other issues perceived to be infringing on personal freedom.

https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/australias-2022-word-of-the-year-revealed

As I said, I have interacted with people like this OP daily in Australia. They might well be ASD, but there is a distinct cultural element that was very evident early on.

Ahhh.... the supreme overconfidence of an extreme misogynist who thinks it is fun to get one over the stupid women. W ank F odder.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2025 12:59

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 12:56

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

Just for anyone seeing this link posted again, you might find this useful.

I believe this document discusses those crime statistics

escholarship.org/content/qt7c3704zg/qt7c3704zg.pdf?t=qqfomk&v=lg

It refers to 369 trans people vs 435 061 people who were not trans identified in a study.

How strange that that was not mentioned at all in the press release!!

I might have forgotten most of what I learned from my Statistics module at uni but 0.0008 is not a population that you could draw many confident conclusions from. And it would be ridiculous to make the comparison.

Think about this from the point of view that women around the world admit they don’t bother to report their sexual assaults and rapes. Because they have no confidence that they will get justice AND not be vilified in the process.

What % of females actively reporting their attacks vs current trend of not bothering to report would decimate that 369 figure?

And that number cannot be accurately depicted in this point either;

”About half of all violent victimizations were not reported to police. Transgender people were as likely as cisgender people to report violence to police.”

Sure this 'maybe'. However, I believe the huge number of women telling us they don’t report.

This article is misrepresenting the reality.

I also bring to your attention this as it is relevant to your claim:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

Including! Notice it says ‘including’!

Not ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.”

What was NOT included was a handy breakdown of what constituted the crimes against trans people were. What was the bar for a hate crime being committed for instance? Misogyny? Does that fit the definition that holds for transphobic hate crimes?

And based on 369 people, I am not going to delve into that national dataset to look for it. I don’t have the will. Maybe if you wish to prove your point, you could link to that data with the breakdown of the actual crimes reported for those 369 people.

“One in four transgender women who were victimized thought the incident was a hate crime compared to less than one in ten cisgender women.”

How many females being taught how to accurately assess the motivation against them as to whether it constituted a hate crime, or indeed using the very same frames of reference as trans people do but based on sexism, and then reanswering that same survey would again make that point meaningless? Is misogyny a ‘hate crime’ for instance?

Do people understand the significance of what centuries of oppression of females has done on being able to accurately assess the motivation of crimes against our sex?

I am beginning to. The trans lobby groups are informing my learnings. Because of what they classify as ‘transphobic hate crimes’ when I look at what I have experienced as a female… wow! I sure have overlooked a huge amount of what I just waved away as crap from males.

And that the group who are trans could include many of those reporting abuse that includes misgendering and perceived micro-aggressions. Gosh, imagine if women reported all the hateful things said and done to them on a daily basis.
Crimes that cause harm and pain to anyone should be fully investigated and justice served.

But if a claim such as ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.” is going to be made by any institution or poster, it needs to be based on some very robust data.

Plus it should not be able to be argued against using other knowledge such as the prevalence of females who don’t report their rapes and attacks.

Because it then fails to show integrity by making any reference to those other studies and statistics. It may not even need to make adjustments for that information, but it should make the reader aware of the limitations of the study and its conclusions.

And in the U.K., certainly, crimes against women based on misogyny, from harassment all the way up to rape and murder, are not counted as or logged as “hate crimes”. They might well be the largest category, if they were.

And “trans women” don’t experience misogyny, because misogyny is hatred of women. Male people are men, not women.

Boiledbeetle · 27/08/2025 12:59

Knowing that men aren't women is not a conspiracy theory

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