Women's 'Private Spaces'

[Howseitgoin]

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well?
Thoughts?

Where is your evidence the threat is greater at work? That's a new one! I've never heard that before.

The threat is clearly and obviously (and backed by statistics and data) much greater in public toilets which is accessed by the entire public, not just vetted staff.

Single sex toilets are for privacy and dignity, not just safety.

No idea what you are on about wrt work? In the company I worked in we had single sex toilets too. Most places will if above a certain size.

Or are you trying to segregate women like in Afghanistan?

Yawn. 1/10 for originality. 0/10 for effort I remember the good old days when people at least made an effort.

More than half of women experienced sexual harassment in public bathrooms do they? Evidence?

"Workplace sexual harassment is sadly common and gendered. For example, Fitzgerald and Cortina (2018) estimated that half of all working women will experience sexual harassment during their working life and polling by the Trades Union Congress (2016) reported that women are 3 times more likely than men to be a victim. However, a 2021 UN survey found that 80% of sexual harassment victims in the UK never report the incident (UN Women UK, 2021) and such a significant number of unreported cases makes it difficult to obtain precise prevalence figures. Indeed, a culture of non-reporting/non-reacting underlies the narrative that workplace sexual harassment is uncommon."

Work place sexual harassment

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10248292/#:~:text=Data%20Collection,left%20199%20comments%20for%20analysis.

I'm not referring to bathrooms in the work place. I am referring specifically to being alone with men in the workplace. Nor am I suggesting there should be separate work spaces. I'm simply questioning the inconsistency in approaches to being in the company of men given the risk factor is present in both scenarios & significantly more at work.

Can't have it both ways?

If you don't understand how the risk is greater when women and girls are VULNERABLE AND IN A STATE OF PARTIAL UNDRESS, you are beyond understanding anything and reasoning with, or just trying to goad/troll us.

There is a reason female only intimate spaces exist. Ask yourself why that is.

Lastly, AGAIN, it's not just about safety. You seem utterly and completely incapable of understanding that it's about PRIVACY and DIGNITY away from the male gaze and presence.

Toilets, not bathrooms. I think the last public bathroom in the UK closed in the 80s.

It's an easy way to tell the Americans on here. And of course, womens rights are far worse in America. Hence a lot of American posters attitudes to womens rights and spaces on here.

I do t think women’s rights are worse in the US, or not yet anyway (ask me again after a bit longer under the orange arse). They’re just different.

Anywhere were women are in a state of undress, whether this be changing their clothes or using the loo with their pants around their ankles makes women more vulnerable - hence the reason for making these spaces female only. The aim is safeguarding - putting things in place to try and prevent this from happening. As for sexual harassment at work, yes this a problem too, hence the reason for new legislation such as the Worker Protection Act 2023 where employers have to proactively take reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment at work. This too is an example of putting things in place to try and prevent this from happening.

What on earth are you on about? When you go to the loo you are in a state of undress and vulnerability in a small enclosed space. This is not the case meeting with Brian from accounts in boardroom no 2.

Workplace toilets and changing rooms need to be single sex because they are places women will be partly undressed and vulnerable for physical reasons.

If that is enforced they should also provide a safe retreat from pervy men. I say should since it was in a workplace toilet that my colleague was cornered - though the space's single-sex designation enabled her and the woman who followed the creepy man in to expel him and get him officially sanctioned and eventually sacked. It does provide a space away from non-criminal but still difficult male colleagues.

Was your OP your best gotcha, ultimately proving women can't be workers?

The statistics here are muddled. 'Women in workplace' v 'women in public bathrooms' is not like-for-like. We need 'workplace bathrooms' v 'public bathrooms', 'workplace generally' v 'public generally' etc. Confounding variables, like reporting levels, might need accounting for. Criteria like 'alone with men' need to be made consistent.

You act as if there's no such thing as a 'locked cubicle'.

Hoe do you cope at most restaurants where shared spaces has been a thing for decades?

Very good. You're almost getting it. Employers aren't providing locked cubicles in separate work areas but education & penalties. So logic should dictate if its good enough for the work place where sexual harassment is endemic then its good enough where it isn't.

Your logic is a bit dim.

Males in public spaces dont choose to not harrass women in public spaces and then when they go to work suddenly decide to begin to harrass women in their work force.

That kind of lack of thinking is a sad reflection on your ability to make even a half assed attempt at a debate.

HINT: Brian from accounts doesn't need you to be in a "state of undress" to 'make a move'.

IE your attire won't protect you.

You act as if locked cubicles aren't a thing in the males, either.

It's the COMMUNAL space that gives women and girls support. Not the 'cubicle'.

Privacy and safety, not just dignity, is a legitimate aim of female only HARD WON single sex spaces.

Hint: female intimate spaces give women PRIVACY AND DIGNITY, not just safety.

I like and trust pretty much all my male colleagues, I still don't want them to be in the cubicle next to me and I think they don't want that either. There is one woman on my floor (I'm fairly sure I know who it is, different company) who doesn't even come into the toilet when one of the cubicles is occupied by another woman and waits until the toilet is empty or probably uses the accessible toilet instead.

You missed that in the UK the law says that employers must provide single sex spaces for men and single sex spaces for women when it comes to changing clothes or removing clothes etc?

So you "very good" thought process fails to be logical.

But please feel free to test and prove your theory that harrassment of women in public spaces is not endemic.🍿

"Was your OP your best gotcha, ultimately proving women can't be workers?"

Not at all. Just the opposite. I'm simply pointing to the inconsistencies in separate bathrooms & as a staunch feminist it concerns me greatly that women should regress to separate spheres of influence & by insisting male predatorial inclinations & violence cannot be tolerated there is only one direction this is heading & no where good for women.

Locked cubicles are fine but what is wrong with adding another layer of protection by making them female only. In the UK, unisex toilets are supposed to be separate rooms not part of a line of cubicles because those involved in the design have identified this as the safest option. It makes perfect sense to most people. Single sex toilets were introduced because women didn’t feel safe when sharing with men. The question is why do you not want women to have the safest option?

I'm broadcasting from Australia where our laws beg to disagree.

That the UK government made a politically advantageous decision doesn't make it ethical.

Is your argument that as women get assaulted by men anyway, they should stop complaining about sharing toilets and changing rooms with the same men?

This is not how human rights work but thank you for pointing out that women are at risk from men.

just fyi, safeguarding principles state you should make it harder for men to access their victims, not give up and tell the victims to live with the risks.