Countering 'gender critical' misinformation for the umpteenth time

[BeeSourianteAgain]

The firehose of misinformation that comes from 'gender critical' world is quite insane, so posting the latest nonsense here and tackling from the source, so to speak.

The rant attached is typical, I've heard similar ?hundreds of times, particularly on the Nazi site.

Ignoring the unhinged hate that is quite normal for such people.

(1) Trans women "sprout tits" because there's a large increase (all humans have both estradiol and testosterone, but just differ in amount) in estradiol due to the bio-identical* - the same thing that happens in regular puberty. It's why it's called 2nd puberty for those who have already gone through one. "sex" isn't a magic construct, we are all human beings who have the genetic instructions for both male and female characteristics. Sex hormones are essentially 'sex-signalling' chemicals.

Sex hormones cause a change in genetic expression and the body responds (i.e.phenotypic expression) by building whatever sex structures that are being signalled and even attempts to modify what is already created (hence change in size and thankful loss of function in both trans men and women)

(2) Breasts or any other sex characteristics don't "disappear" - they can and do lose function and atrophy, but in order to change structures that have already been created, you'll need gender-affirming surgery (something which people are fine with cisgender people do it, but get all icky and lizard-brained when trans people do it) Similarly, post menopause, because the relative ratio of testosterone: estradiol is more balanced (cisgender) women can and do gain more male characteristic (e.g.. lowering of vocal pitch, pattern baldness), though it's nothing like what happens with transgender men as they have an extreme testosterone: estradiol ratio as cisgender men

(3) As stated previously, all humans have both testosterone and estradiol..and there's nothing "alien" about bioidentical hormones, if that were the case, all humans would have these "alien" chemicals running around them.

(4) There's nothing particularly remarkable about the amount of sex hormones that the vaaaast majority of trans people take (I know of a single binary trans person who isn't and that's only due to their specific health circumstances - I know hundreds of trans people). It's increased if estradiol / testosterone is still being endogenously produced, but as with what happens in 100% of cases, once that stops (even if you don't have surgeries, your body 'gets the message' after a time anyway), once that's not an issue, doses are in the same range as anyone else.

Even if trans people were smothering themselves in gel like GCs believe, it wouldn't matter anyway. Sex hormones are not paracetamol - to 'overdose' on them would pretty much mean drowning yourself in vat of hormone gel.

Just like with cisgender women, trans women often also reduce their dose later in life.

(5) Trans people don't take hormones to 'feminise' - they take them to deal with (body) gender dysphoria. It's utterly crazy the amount of anti-trans activists who, despite obsessing over us 24/7, don't know that body gender dysphoria is a thing. A few years back my jaw dropped when I had to explain that to a prominent member of the now defunct Women's Place. It's like people think we go through sex changes for fun smh

(6) The wishing of death on trans people by the GC in attached, is, sadly for her, incorrect. We do have worse health outcomes but for the same boring reasons that any other marginalised group does. Again, HRT relating to sex-change or menopause is in 99% of cases, bioidentical. There were issues relating to synthetic hormones which we should be having a conversation about in relation to younger cisgender women, but sadly fake feminists don't want that.

Trans women are at increased risk of things like breast cancer and reduced risk of prostate cancer, but the former isn't any different to cisgender women, as, unsurprisingly they're exactly the same things.

If anyone read that and still thinks that 'sex' is a binary, immutable thing, then you are truly lost.

*i.e. chemically identical - the only people who get horse-piss estradiol these days are younger cisgender women who are on birth control meds that contain estradiol as well as (synthetic) progresterone. Of course, this should actually be a concern but apparently shitting on trans people is what passes for 'women's rights activism' for some, particularly r/w, people. There's no good reason that I know of why BC should still be using synthetics.

I read this latest plopper and it is such an intricate mix of misinformation.

This was a good example. I know BeeS has an issue about when women tell BeeS that exogenous hormones are not the same as naturally produced hormones. But this is a thing of beauty.

“As stated previously, all humans have both testosterone and estradiol..and there's nothing "alien" about bioidentical hormones, if that were the case, all humans would have these "alien" chemicals running around them.”

BeeS, if your body didn’t make the hormone you (generalised ‘you’) have added to your body, it is indeed ‘alien’ in that sense. Even more so when that specific chemical concoction is not even made by other humans and transplanted into your body.

In the personal desperation to minimise the fact that someone is adding hormones that their body was not intended to be processing in the quantities they are adding, you, BeeS, have indeed posted misinformation. This paragraph is one small example.

However, this section below show just a peak into the tactics you use to spread misinformation.

“there's nothing "alien" about bioidentical hormones, if that were the case, all humans would have these "alien" chemicals running around them.”

So, yes. They are ‘alien’ in that they are not being naturally produced in that person’s body by that person’s endocrine system, thereby that chemical addition is indeed ‘alien’ to that body.

There is also no evidence that these ‘bio-identical’ chemicals are 100% pure of any other additions or 100% accurate. In short, BeeS keeps trying to claim there is no difference at all and that these exogenous hormones are in fact, what the body produces.

However, BeeS then tries using a false generalisation cognitive distortion tactic that I expect is an attempt to convince others. BeeS then pulls in the entire human population to make the point sound more credible.

BeeS did this to falsely portray exogenous hormones as being 100% exactly same as the hormone produced by that person’s body. There are differences and there are potential harms in saying or directly implying that there isn’t. Yet this poster went there.

BeeS used a false generalisation that this group of modified hormones is an exact match to the hormones produced by humans. Therefore by this false logic all humans have artificially modified hormones circulating in their bodies. Well, we know that logic is not this poster’s strong suit but this was just a small sample of the dishonest tactics that activists use to spread misinformation.

And again, this thread’s title is DARVO. The misinformation may have been in some post by a random person somewhere on the internet, but the opening post is also stuffed full of misinformation.

The title should read :

Countering 'gender critical' misinformation with my own misinformation for the umpteenth time.

And there is only one group who call exogenous hormones ‘titty skittles’.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but this idea that warning of the health risks of cross sex hormones is the same thing as wishing trans people dead is so harmful and frankly childish.
I lost a lovely transwoman friend before their time, and all the transmen I know past middle age are in terrible health. If I draw attention to the health risks it is the exact opposite of wishing them dead ffs.

To add to this.

This sleight of hand “there's nothing "alien" about bioidentical hormones, if that were the case, all humans would have these "alien" chemicals running around them.” is really reminiscent of the ludicrous transwomen are women mantra.

Because if transwomen are women is true then women are transwomen must also be true. But it is not.

Yet that reverse is what BeeS is trying to say is true about bio identical hormones. That they are so exact that it can be said that all humans are producing this exact same chemical.

But transwomen are transwomen, not women and bio identical hormones modified from
other sources are bio identical hormones modified from
other sources, not human produced hormones.

Accuracy is important when countering misinformation.

My young TiF assured me the health risks didn’t matter because ‘trans people’s life expectation is really low, they die in their 30s anyway’.

Gee thanks you fucking irresponsible death mongers. You have convinced a healthy young woman to poison herself as her only alternative would be suicide before she reaches 40. I hope you feel very very proud, Bee, for using misinformation to school an already vulnerable young woman into self harm.

To the ‘feminists’ who think MN is toxic, think on that. Think on what you are collaborating with. I hold you responsible too.

@usethedata I think you’re talking to a small subset of teenagers

My teenagers and their friends are thoroughly fed up with the attention that Trans identifying teens are seeking and the focus they get from schools. My teen DD who plays football also genuinely worries about having to play against a boy who identifies as a girl or even worse having to get changed in front of him.

So yeah perhaps talk to some different teens.

Oh also as it my responsibility I’ve ensured that they understand simple biology.

I'm also not surprised if kids are actually believing these things since they were recently being taught this stuff in school, umpteen genders and God knows what else. A relative of mine, who works in a school, told me how it was all a bit mad because they were teaching kids one thing in one subject then contradicting the information in another subject!
As for the kids being kinder to each other, I find that hard to believe after reading about that website set up for them to post about sexual abuse at their school!
www.everyonesinvited.uk/

Bee, you spend a lot of time here posting easily disproven nonsense. Why? Is it like the evangelical Christians who stand on street corners shouting at people because they think it makes it more likely they’ll get into heaven?

Yeah, there is a lot of misinformation being taught at schools (at least in Scotland where my children went to school) about sex/gender and the social pressure is immense. dd (20) said only the most brave didn't put pronouns into their SM profiles when she was still at school, the bullying otherwise was pretty bad.

Another completely pointless blah from @BeeSourianteAgain . I automatically check "see all" when I clock a post from this poster now, check to see whether or not there's any further posting to indicate some engagement with those responding to the nonsense posted, and if (as invariably) there isn't any, move on to another thread.

I appreciate that a big part of the dysphoria is having everyone play along nicely with your fantasy life, but honestly , get a life!

The title should read :
Countering 'gender critical' misinformation with my own misinformation for the umpteenth time.

May I suggest: “‘Countering’ gender critical ‘misinformation’ with my own misinformation for the umpteenth time”?

I am curious what misinformtion you come across re binary immutable sex. However, OP is brimming with a load of misinformation.

I think my male friend who has prostate cancer in his early 50's and has been on oestrogen for 2 years would disagree that cross sex hormones don't have side effects. Males weren't set up to have oestrogen nor females testosterone to anymore than miniscule levels.
Anyone can take a small piece of factual information and skew it to fit their narrative. But the facts remain. The earth is round.

Yep that one.

Which is kinda relevant to the discussion and no doubt 'transphobic' to talk about.

I'm so sorry, myplace. I hope you find way through.

The ageism inherent in transactivism is off the scale.

Women over 40 are actively demonised and you have young women so brainwashed that they'd rather die than become those women over 40 because they are so desperate to be treated as men.

It's so sad. And abusive.

Dude, are you not tired? You post here constantly and get shut down easily every time. What are you even getting from it at this point?

This

You know how everyone said that, to Trump voters, Donald Trump comes across as what a stupid person thinks an intelligent person sounds like.... while everyone else looks on in disbelief?

I see an analogous thing here - not with stupidity per se, but with people who see pseudoscientific words and don't have the critical thinking skills to distinguish logic from dressed-up fiction. While everyone else thinks "that? You were convinced of a logically contradictory claim by that?!"

By now the likes of Bee must know that there are too many intelligent, well-informed women on here, some with expert knowledge in relevant fields, so their 'information' is inevitably going to be shown up for the misinformation it actually is.

They clearly don't care, because they know they are always right, and we are stupid, blinkered, hate-fuelled, [or even as somebody shockingly called us the other day 'hate-fueled'😱😀] bigots.

So they know they are never going to convince us; their objective appears to be to get any old anti-women, anti-GC stuff on MN - I wonder is it a game, and do they get points for how many outrageously inaccurate anti-women threads they can get listed?

Also what kind of irresponsible person tells people you can't overdose on hormones??!!!
Why is there an increased risk (albeit small if you use transdermal) of breast and uterine cancer if female and on hrt? Why are daughters of women who've had breast cancer told not to have hrt if there isn't an increased risk?
You can overdose on vitamins for Christmas sake, so how you can't on hormones is ridiculous.
The person on here saying they're thankful they have such balanced young adults or teens, I hope to god you aren't telling them they can't overdose and potentially cause themselves (if female) serious heart conditions in the future because they "can't overdose".

You are not a feminist if you are supporting the right of men to exert their privilege over women. Please educate yourself about power, biology and why disagreement is not ‘hate’. You are letting down those you ‘support’ if you don’t understand those basic things and can’t debate without spurious and emotive insults.

For certain types of people the idea of an "intelligent woman" simply doesn't compute. Except, perhaps, if that "woman" has a penis ...