Countering 'gender critical' misinformation for the umpteenth time

[BeeSourianteAgain]

The firehose of misinformation that comes from 'gender critical' world is quite insane, so posting the latest nonsense here and tackling from the source, so to speak.

The rant attached is typical, I've heard similar ?hundreds of times, particularly on the Nazi site.

Ignoring the unhinged hate that is quite normal for such people.

(1) Trans women "sprout tits" because there's a large increase (all humans have both estradiol and testosterone, but just differ in amount) in estradiol due to the bio-identical* - the same thing that happens in regular puberty. It's why it's called 2nd puberty for those who have already gone through one. "sex" isn't a magic construct, we are all human beings who have the genetic instructions for both male and female characteristics. Sex hormones are essentially 'sex-signalling' chemicals.

Sex hormones cause a change in genetic expression and the body responds (i.e.phenotypic expression) by building whatever sex structures that are being signalled and even attempts to modify what is already created (hence change in size and thankful loss of function in both trans men and women)

(2) Breasts or any other sex characteristics don't "disappear" - they can and do lose function and atrophy, but in order to change structures that have already been created, you'll need gender-affirming surgery (something which people are fine with cisgender people do it, but get all icky and lizard-brained when trans people do it) Similarly, post menopause, because the relative ratio of testosterone: estradiol is more balanced (cisgender) women can and do gain more male characteristic (e.g.. lowering of vocal pitch, pattern baldness), though it's nothing like what happens with transgender men as they have an extreme testosterone: estradiol ratio as cisgender men

(3) As stated previously, all humans have both testosterone and estradiol..and there's nothing "alien" about bioidentical hormones, if that were the case, all humans would have these "alien" chemicals running around them.

(4) There's nothing particularly remarkable about the amount of sex hormones that the vaaaast majority of trans people take (I know of a single binary trans person who isn't and that's only due to their specific health circumstances - I know hundreds of trans people). It's increased if estradiol / testosterone is still being endogenously produced, but as with what happens in 100% of cases, once that stops (even if you don't have surgeries, your body 'gets the message' after a time anyway), once that's not an issue, doses are in the same range as anyone else.

Even if trans people were smothering themselves in gel like GCs believe, it wouldn't matter anyway. Sex hormones are not paracetamol - to 'overdose' on them would pretty much mean drowning yourself in vat of hormone gel.

Just like with cisgender women, trans women often also reduce their dose later in life.

(5) Trans people don't take hormones to 'feminise' - they take them to deal with (body) gender dysphoria. It's utterly crazy the amount of anti-trans activists who, despite obsessing over us 24/7, don't know that body gender dysphoria is a thing. A few years back my jaw dropped when I had to explain that to a prominent member of the now defunct Women's Place. It's like people think we go through sex changes for fun smh

(6) The wishing of death on trans people by the GC in attached, is, sadly for her, incorrect. We do have worse health outcomes but for the same boring reasons that any other marginalised group does. Again, HRT relating to sex-change or menopause is in 99% of cases, bioidentical. There were issues relating to synthetic hormones which we should be having a conversation about in relation to younger cisgender women, but sadly fake feminists don't want that.

Trans women are at increased risk of things like breast cancer and reduced risk of prostate cancer, but the former isn't any different to cisgender women, as, unsurprisingly they're exactly the same things.

If anyone read that and still thinks that 'sex' is a binary, immutable thing, then you are truly lost.

*i.e. chemically identical - the only people who get horse-piss estradiol these days are younger cisgender women who are on birth control meds that contain estradiol as well as (synthetic) progresterone. Of course, this should actually be a concern but apparently shitting on trans people is what passes for 'women's rights activism' for some, particularly r/w, people. There's no good reason that I know of why BC should still be using synthetics.

What do your children find easy to accept? Do they think humans can change sex? 🤔

What "hate" is involved with recognising that humans come in one of two options
• female or
•male?

1. You’re spouting nonsense. Sex is immutable and particularly for men, once THEYVE gone through make puberty no amount of oestrogen is going to make them look like something they are not.

2. Testosterone on a women has a far more potent effect and often causes irreversible changes such as facial hair. But again, sex is immutable.

3. Everyone knows this, but again, no one can change sex.

4. Men taking enough oestrogen to create moobs is not normal and is not naturally occurring without taking oestrogen therapy.

5. You’re correct - oestrogen doesnt feminise a male body that has gone through puberty.

6. Spouting nonsense

I’m loving all the “feminists” simping for men who would throw them under a bus in a heartbeat if they even put a foot wrong in their catechism of trans ideology. I mean, I’m assuming these are real posters and not @BeeSourianteAgain friends. Is this another plop and run? Does this dude have a life?

@GallantKumquat I didnt know the Y chromosome was very small. MN is so educational! How entertaining that masculinity depends on a very small thing! 🤣

You talk about cis women and transwomen. That surely means you think women come in two sexes. Otherwise you’d only need the word ‘woman’.
Woman does the job of referring to all women. No need for modifiers that indicate the inclusion or otherwise of men.

Bee’s friends - or, more likely, Bee’s socks.

Humans can’t change sex. Men can’t be women. The earth goes around the sun. There is literally no point in trying to reason with these people,

To be fair. I just point and laugh at them.

You mean, they are under pressure from their peers, teachers, the media, politicians and in some cases it seems their own parents to go along with a ludicrous and damaging ideology because voicing dissent would see them ostracised and accused of being nazis and bigots. What an utter shit way to grow up.
Well written, my arse.

I’m amazed anyone thinks that hormones can or should be taken willynilly.
Imbalances in hormones are a health condition that needs addressing.

Women using HRT are trying to return their body to its better functioning state before their oestrogen levels dropped.

Women and men taking cross sex hormones are taking all sorts of risks. Increasing the hormone you are supposed to have in small amounts has consequences.

I read all that and just thought moobs moobs moobs.

If you want moobs have at it but they are not breast, moob leakage isn’t breast milk and an inside out penis is not a vagina.

I think the disinformation spread by TRA’s is really harmful to young people. It’s basically lies to convince people they can change sex when they simply can’t.

The op is a castle built on the sand at the beach waiting for the tide to come in.

It is beautiful and almost exactly true to form. The only problem is the foundations: Humans can't change sex.

If the beach didn't matter then you'd have a lovely castle. But the tide is coming in. Reality is a thing. The only outcome is ruins.

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if I repeat the same fact.

Very often, in these discussions, nobody mentions the hormonal receptors, which are expressed in different patterns and at different levels in male and female.

Thank you op. It is useful and revealing to get a glimpse into the mind of a person who believes that people can change sex.

Love this post bee.

It illustrates the intense obsession men who think they’re women have with breasts.

Thank you for demonstrating the fetish

feminism centres females, clue is in the name. championing male’s needs to body mod is not feminism .

What a lot of garbled rubbish, don’t you proof read such a long post? And why do you hang around on Nazi sites? Weird.

I was in two minds about whether to reply to this thread @BeeSourianteAgain, because the subject matter of it is such an irrelevance to most gender critical feminists.

I'm not an endocrinologist and so I'm not qualified to critically analyse the tweet you are quoting.

However:

1. If you want to talk about misinformation, can we talk about the trans women who claim that taking cross sex hormones makes them female, that they have a menstrual cycle, and that taking hormones to induce lactation means they can breastfeed? Because none of those things are true.
2. If the effects of taking female sex hormones on the male body were permanent, presumably trans women would not need to take them for their whole lives. They could take them at an appropriate dose and for a length of time which would have the effect closest to going through female puberty (which is of course not possible for a male person) and then they would be able to stay in a "female" state for the rest of their lives. Everything I have read seems to suggest that the effects of female sex hormones on the male body are reversible. This is why "Nurse Rose" was talking about stopping his hormones in order to get his female partner pregnant, trans identifying male sex offenders have talked about stopping hormones so that they can get an erection again, and trans identifying male athletes have been known to take hormones just for long enough to be able to qualify to compete in female categories. Surely if these hormones actually changed your sex in any meaningful way the effects would be permanent after a while?
3. You talk about how trans women's "breasts" are permanent, even though breasts can "lose function and atrophy". But trans women's breasts have no function. The function of breasts is to breastfeed, and this is true of all women even if they never actually do breastfeed. Trans women cannot breastfeed, and no, not even if they take domperidone and attempt to feed a human child their unnatural secretions. Their breasts are essentially fatty deposits housed in stretched skin. Whilst women's natural breasts often get bigger and smaller and bigger and smaller again depending on their hormonal changes, trans women have essentially got two pockets of fat which will be hard to shift because fat is hard to shift. They may need a mastectomy to remove them in the same way that people who have lost a hundred kilos may need surgery to remove their excess skin.
4. It doesn't even really matter because no matter what they choose to do to their bodies they are still not women and never will be.

Thank you.

This post makes Bees tedious rant about his right to 'tits' worthwhile.

These questions could be used to improve health outcomes for both men and women. Sex-specific medicine is an area that had just started to be taken seriously and really ought to be better researched and considered.

At this stage I'm starting to wonder if we're all being non consensually co-opted into some big humiliation kink.

Pseudoscience isn't actual science no matter how hard it identifies as it.
Male and female bodies are fundamentally different. That's fact, not misinformation.
Taking hormones and having surgery might mask a small amount of that difference but it comes at a physical cost to the person doing it. That's also fact, not misinformation.
No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.
Hth.

It's a real possibility. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

I think we are. Or farmed for Reddit content.

Thank you - Bingo.

You could have been in and out of the men’s toilets in less time than it took to write that load of bollocks.

I think it’s definitely a factor for some of these men.