Countering 'gender critical' misinformation for the umpteenth time

[BeeSourianteAgain]

The firehose of misinformation that comes from 'gender critical' world is quite insane, so posting the latest nonsense here and tackling from the source, so to speak.

The rant attached is typical, I've heard similar ?hundreds of times, particularly on the Nazi site.

Ignoring the unhinged hate that is quite normal for such people.

(1) Trans women "sprout tits" because there's a large increase (all humans have both estradiol and testosterone, but just differ in amount) in estradiol due to the bio-identical* - the same thing that happens in regular puberty. It's why it's called 2nd puberty for those who have already gone through one. "sex" isn't a magic construct, we are all human beings who have the genetic instructions for both male and female characteristics. Sex hormones are essentially 'sex-signalling' chemicals.

Sex hormones cause a change in genetic expression and the body responds (i.e.phenotypic expression) by building whatever sex structures that are being signalled and even attempts to modify what is already created (hence change in size and thankful loss of function in both trans men and women)

(2) Breasts or any other sex characteristics don't "disappear" - they can and do lose function and atrophy, but in order to change structures that have already been created, you'll need gender-affirming surgery (something which people are fine with cisgender people do it, but get all icky and lizard-brained when trans people do it) Similarly, post menopause, because the relative ratio of testosterone: estradiol is more balanced (cisgender) women can and do gain more male characteristic (e.g.. lowering of vocal pitch, pattern baldness), though it's nothing like what happens with transgender men as they have an extreme testosterone: estradiol ratio as cisgender men

(3) As stated previously, all humans have both testosterone and estradiol..and there's nothing "alien" about bioidentical hormones, if that were the case, all humans would have these "alien" chemicals running around them.

(4) There's nothing particularly remarkable about the amount of sex hormones that the vaaaast majority of trans people take (I know of a single binary trans person who isn't and that's only due to their specific health circumstances - I know hundreds of trans people). It's increased if estradiol / testosterone is still being endogenously produced, but as with what happens in 100% of cases, once that stops (even if you don't have surgeries, your body 'gets the message' after a time anyway), once that's not an issue, doses are in the same range as anyone else.

Even if trans people were smothering themselves in gel like GCs believe, it wouldn't matter anyway. Sex hormones are not paracetamol - to 'overdose' on them would pretty much mean drowning yourself in vat of hormone gel.

Just like with cisgender women, trans women often also reduce their dose later in life.

(5) Trans people don't take hormones to 'feminise' - they take them to deal with (body) gender dysphoria. It's utterly crazy the amount of anti-trans activists who, despite obsessing over us 24/7, don't know that body gender dysphoria is a thing. A few years back my jaw dropped when I had to explain that to a prominent member of the now defunct Women's Place. It's like people think we go through sex changes for fun smh

(6) The wishing of death on trans people by the GC in attached, is, sadly for her, incorrect. We do have worse health outcomes but for the same boring reasons that any other marginalised group does. Again, HRT relating to sex-change or menopause is in 99% of cases, bioidentical. There were issues relating to synthetic hormones which we should be having a conversation about in relation to younger cisgender women, but sadly fake feminists don't want that.

Trans women are at increased risk of things like breast cancer and reduced risk of prostate cancer, but the former isn't any different to cisgender women, as, unsurprisingly they're exactly the same things.

If anyone read that and still thinks that 'sex' is a binary, immutable thing, then you are truly lost.

*i.e. chemically identical - the only people who get horse-piss estradiol these days are younger cisgender women who are on birth control meds that contain estradiol as well as (synthetic) progresterone. Of course, this should actually be a concern but apparently shitting on trans people is what passes for 'women's rights activism' for some, particularly r/w, people. There's no good reason that I know of why BC should still be using synthetics.

@JLou08 @usethedata do you accept your culpability in the lifelong damage to my young friend’s body, caused by people like you supporting this nonsense? If we don’t counter the misinformation spread to encourage youngsters to mutilate themselves, we share the responsibility for it.

Trust me, you don’t want to know.

There’s a massive risk for women on excessive doses of testosterone, particularly on their cardiovascular system.

There was a news story recently about a young trans identified girl who was on so much testosterone that her blood was dangerously thick. She needed immediate medical treatment. Sadly my Google-fu isn’t up to the job of finding it now, I get too many hits referring to Semanya. So yeah, “Sex hormones are not paracetamol - to 'overdose' on them would pretty much mean drowning yourself in vat of hormone gel.” is dangerous rubbish @BeeSourianteAgain

Although as a post menopausal woman I am looking forward to my voice lowering and my male pattern baldness while my breasts atrophy. The deeper voice should help my credibility in work calls. /s

I like it!

Sex is binary. Humans can't change sex no matter how much crap you talk about it.

Bee's posts remind me of those teenage boys who shout abuse at women and girls from the top deck of the bus. They get a thrill out of being rude, their mates big them up and they develop into men who despise women and constantly erode their boundaries (and spend a lot of time at night on Mumsnet hounding women)

It's very sad to see.

It's not hate, it's exasperation.

Unfortunately that's a formal fallacy.

We can't say "all cats are mammals, therefore all mammals are cats."
or
"All British passport holders are human beings, therefore all human beings are British passport holders."

In the same way "All transwomen are women" doesn't entail "All women are transwomen." If the former were true, it wouldn't entail the latter being true.

However, transwomen are not women. They are two distinct and mutually exclusive categories of human being.

Just as a footnote, I assume nobody is likely to believe the OPs ridiculous assertion that one can't overdose on hormones.

Should anyone take mroe than the prescribed dosage, this is the advice:

Oestrogen

https://www.drugs.com/estradiol.html

'What happens if I overdose?
Seek emergency medical attention or call the Poison Help line at 1-800-222-1222. Overdose can result in nausea, vomiting and vaginal bleeding.'

Testosterone

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/testosterone-side-effects.html

'Symptoms of overdose

• blurred vision
• inability to speak
• seizures
• severe or sudden headache
• slurred speech
• temporary blindness
• weakness in the arm or leg on one side of the body, sudden and severe'

Nobody has said 'all transwomen are women', tho. Just to be extra pedantic. The phrase used is 'transwomen are women'. It's a complete absurdity, and as has been pointed out, means the same as 'war is peace', 'freedom is slavery'.

I’ve got no idea what OPs first post was about and really don’t care but he seems to be on about men giving h themselves a huge hormone imbalance.

The Alzheimer’s Society thinks there could be an issue here:

https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/study-suggests-memory-and-thinking-decline-in-transgender-adults/

And sadly, some of the men who develop dementia then forget they ever thought they were women and get hugely distressed at their unfeasible moobs and lack of penis.

It’s clearly not innate then.

Christ, not you again with your insane ranting.

Bore off.

I’m gutted for your friend myplace. These ‘feminists’ do bear a responsibility for this and are inexplicably fighting against the interests of women.

I can only guess they are the daughters and granddaughters of the anti-suffragettes - the women who fought against women’s right to vote. I’m sure there some in every generation.

Oh, you sweet baby unicorn, Bee! I regret to inform you that your Transgender Medical Primer 101 is missing some vital components and glosses over the more complex issues. I'll leave others to help improve your education on the matter, but will just comment on these two statements:

we are all human beings who have the genetic instructions for both male and female characteristics.

So you reckon I contain the 'genetic instructions' for a male body - whereabouts are these hidden? Not in my DNA, obviously, since both my sex chromosomes are female. Not in my oocytes (which code for my offspring's bodies, not mine), as they're all female as well. Hmm.

Sex hormones are essentially 'sex-signalling' chemicals

Depends on your definitions of 'essentially' and 'sex-signalling', I guess. Courtesy of Google:

Sex hormones influence immune cell function, with androgens and progestogens generally promoting immunosuppression while estrogens enhance immunity.

Sex hormones affect the cardiovascular system, influencing blood pressure, blood clotting, and the health of blood vessels.

Sex hormones impact brain development, structure, and function, affecting behavior, mood, and cognitive processes.

Sex hormones also play roles in muscle mass, bone health, and hair growth.

~ Enjoy your continued learning journey!

Yay, another Bingo for me!

Me! Me!

<sigh> in Number 6 you claim the writer wishes death on transgender people. No. They actually don’t. They point out that the use of artificial hormones and other ‘treatments’ can have long term health implications and result in premature death. Read it again. Slowly. Tuck your assumptions away with your lady-penis and actually read the words properly.

Please see below for examples of actual death threats. You’ll notice they are not aimed at trans people.

I wonder what it is about Mumsnet that attracts these boring men. Why don’t they go chat to their own on Reddit?

They’re so out of place here among the well-educated women and they only ever talk about themselves and their tedious and defensive obsession with their medical details.

That said, this particular man seems to have six pages of responses. Not sure how many are from women like me, that only got a few lines into the drivel before giving up, but really it’s a pity we still seem collectively to be unable to grey rock.

Some men pay escorts to stand on their testicles, some men come to FWR to have their arses served to them.

Defending the right of rape survivors like me to have female only single sex spaces is not 'hate'. You appear brainwashed by the Mens Rights movement to shit all over your own sex, and the headstones of our foremother feminists who fought SO HARD for our sex-based spaces and rights. Just so you can lick up crumbs of approval from males, @JLou08 .

🎯

Bio-identical is a marketing term and is not a guarantee of safety or quality control.

https://womensmentalhealth.org/posts/the-truth-about-bioidentical-hormones/

"Myth: “Bio-identical” hormones are safer and more effective than FDA-approved MHT drugs.

Fact: FDA is not aware of any credible scientific evidence to support claims made regarding the safety and effectiveness of compounded “BHRT” drugs. “They are not safer just because they are ‘natural,'” says Kathleen Uhl, M.D., Director of FDA’s Office of Women’s Health."

You probably need to read up on hormone receptors.

Blimey get a life

Bingo!