Countering 'gender critical' misinformation for the umpteenth time

[BeeSourianteAgain]

The firehose of misinformation that comes from 'gender critical' world is quite insane, so posting the latest nonsense here and tackling from the source, so to speak.

The rant attached is typical, I've heard similar ?hundreds of times, particularly on the Nazi site.

Ignoring the unhinged hate that is quite normal for such people.

(1) Trans women "sprout tits" because there's a large increase (all humans have both estradiol and testosterone, but just differ in amount) in estradiol due to the bio-identical* - the same thing that happens in regular puberty. It's why it's called 2nd puberty for those who have already gone through one. "sex" isn't a magic construct, we are all human beings who have the genetic instructions for both male and female characteristics. Sex hormones are essentially 'sex-signalling' chemicals.

Sex hormones cause a change in genetic expression and the body responds (i.e.phenotypic expression) by building whatever sex structures that are being signalled and even attempts to modify what is already created (hence change in size and thankful loss of function in both trans men and women)

(2) Breasts or any other sex characteristics don't "disappear" - they can and do lose function and atrophy, but in order to change structures that have already been created, you'll need gender-affirming surgery (something which people are fine with cisgender people do it, but get all icky and lizard-brained when trans people do it) Similarly, post menopause, because the relative ratio of testosterone: estradiol is more balanced (cisgender) women can and do gain more male characteristic (e.g.. lowering of vocal pitch, pattern baldness), though it's nothing like what happens with transgender men as they have an extreme testosterone: estradiol ratio as cisgender men

(3) As stated previously, all humans have both testosterone and estradiol..and there's nothing "alien" about bioidentical hormones, if that were the case, all humans would have these "alien" chemicals running around them.

(4) There's nothing particularly remarkable about the amount of sex hormones that the vaaaast majority of trans people take (I know of a single binary trans person who isn't and that's only due to their specific health circumstances - I know hundreds of trans people). It's increased if estradiol / testosterone is still being endogenously produced, but as with what happens in 100% of cases, once that stops (even if you don't have surgeries, your body 'gets the message' after a time anyway), once that's not an issue, doses are in the same range as anyone else.

Even if trans people were smothering themselves in gel like GCs believe, it wouldn't matter anyway. Sex hormones are not paracetamol - to 'overdose' on them would pretty much mean drowning yourself in vat of hormone gel.

Just like with cisgender women, trans women often also reduce their dose later in life.

(5) Trans people don't take hormones to 'feminise' - they take them to deal with (body) gender dysphoria. It's utterly crazy the amount of anti-trans activists who, despite obsessing over us 24/7, don't know that body gender dysphoria is a thing. A few years back my jaw dropped when I had to explain that to a prominent member of the now defunct Women's Place. It's like people think we go through sex changes for fun smh

(6) The wishing of death on trans people by the GC in attached, is, sadly for her, incorrect. We do have worse health outcomes but for the same boring reasons that any other marginalised group does. Again, HRT relating to sex-change or menopause is in 99% of cases, bioidentical. There were issues relating to synthetic hormones which we should be having a conversation about in relation to younger cisgender women, but sadly fake feminists don't want that.

Trans women are at increased risk of things like breast cancer and reduced risk of prostate cancer, but the former isn't any different to cisgender women, as, unsurprisingly they're exactly the same things.

If anyone read that and still thinks that 'sex' is a binary, immutable thing, then you are truly lost.

*i.e. chemically identical - the only people who get horse-piss estradiol these days are younger cisgender women who are on birth control meds that contain estradiol as well as (synthetic) progresterone. Of course, this should actually be a concern but apparently shitting on trans people is what passes for 'women's rights activism' for some, particularly r/w, people. There's no good reason that I know of why BC should still be using synthetics.

Ok but that doesn’t answer any of the points.

It wasn’t my only comment, was it. Just clarifying since you appear to think women come in two sexes. They do not.

Is that a scientific fact or an assumption? I don’t know, I’m interested in learning which is the only reason I engaged with the thread. I don’t give a shit what people have in their pants or what they want to call themselves. The biology is interesting to me.

That study didn’t really indicate that sex hormones affect male bodies differently, because it wasn’t comparing oestrogen dosing on male and female bodies. Females taking male hormones didn’t show a negative impact, despite the fact that testosterone is associated with earlier CVD.

4

Whenever he posts his usual claptrap I imagine it in the voice of the guy at 9:14

No idea what you're trying to say, sorry. Do 'transwomen' magically lose their penises and grow vaginas when they have this second puberty? Or just grow man-boobs? Not sure that's enough to make them female... Elon Musk has man-boobs, doesn't make him a woman.

Please don’t put words in my mouth, I haven’t done that to you.

More studies

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10072899/

Sorry but wishful thinking doesn't trump reality.

Another feminist here in support of the trans community. It makes me so angry that the gender critical try to use feminism as an excuse for their hate.

Yes well on the feminist board we do “give a shit” when male people are trying to shape our world around the false, faddish idea that they are women and can talk over actual women, invade our spaces etc.

This one?

Trans rights activism is the least feminist idea of modern times, its putting women’s rights back decades. Give yourselves a pat on the back for that.

Did you read it?

3Several harmful adverse events of cross-sex hormones have been previously reported, but there are no definitive conclusions because of insufficient evidence as to whether the administration of CHT to transgender people increases the subsequent risk for cardiovascular events (CVE) and death. (my emphasis).

You're not a feminist if you believe men can be women. How do you define feminist if you think that?

Great for you, and here you are assuming I think women come in two sexes and being generally obnoxious. To be honest I thought you were a man. What an excellent feminist you are.

ETA the post that was quoted by OP included the poster gloating about being in oestrogen tablets. That stood out to me as a weird boast, given oral oestrogen is considered higher risk. It reminded me how poor women’s health are still is. That feels like a more important battleground really. But if you’d rather just argue about the meaning of words, ok. 👌🏻

Look, this "second puberty" stuff is not just bollocks, it's an actual insult to people who have needed hormone therapy to help their bodies work as they should. For instance, girls whose puberty has been delayed due to anorexia.

See also transactivists' constant reference to "HRT" when referring to cross-sex hormones that don't replace what should naturally be there.

Using cross-sex hormones to mimic the superficial characteristics of the opposite sex is not the same thing. Stop pretending that it is.

Did you miss this bit?

Definitive evidence to guarantee the long-term safety of GAHT for either transgender women or transgender men is insufficient. However, estrogen administration likely increases the risk for CVE in transgender women, but it remains inconclusive as to whether androgen administration increases the risk of CVE in transgender men.

What ‘people’ have in their pants is
fundamentally biology. There’s no point in pretending it isn’t. People can blab on about hormones as much as they like , but it takes two different types of human sex cells - eggs and sperm to create a new human. Men can grow as many tits as they like- they’re still not women.

What part of insufficient evidence are you struggling with? And what part of ‘not comparing female users with male users of the same hormone’ are you not getting?

(Harmonica sounds)

Ahem.

There was a thread
Which was quite daft
And Bee was the author (o)

Bee I N G O
Bee I N G O
Bee I N G O

We all guessed it was Bee (o)

This.

Thanks for the lecture, but I don’t recall ever saying men can become women, or vice versa. The only point I’ve made on this thread is that oestrogen can be both dangerous and protective to male and to female bodied people.

.

This IS Bee's hobby.

That’s insufficient evidence to guarantee the safety, and they say that GAHT (ie oestrogen and other female sex hormones) likely raises CVE risk for this cohort of men, explicitly. What part are you struggling with?