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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #49

1000 replies

nauticant · 31/07/2025 13:22

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
NebulousSadTimes · 04/08/2025 12:10

Being reminded of so much of this fucking prickery isn't doing my BP any good.

Thankfully said prickery has brought the whole business to the attention of many who were unaware.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 04/08/2025 12:10

PetethePlumbersToolkit · 04/08/2025 11:51

Yes, I think that was what the witness from SM was saying she had taken a phone call about. I'm not sure if they were withholding it or screening it and then sending it on.

It makes me uncomfortable to think of her post being opened without her knowledge. Surely that's not legal?

nauticant · 04/08/2025 12:28

Thanks for the contributions everyone, they're great. I want to have a complete set of memorable events so I can read through them before I have a chat with anyone about this case.

Sorry for inducing Monday morning blood pressure peaks in some posters.

OP posts:
BeLemonNow · 04/08/2025 12:28

@nauticant r.e. as well this thread has had some great informative and funny posts, might be good to have a prize for these too!

TheAutumnCrow · 04/08/2025 12:31

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 04/08/2025 09:16

A parent's feelings could be very complex. Unconditional love, embarrassment, guilt, pain, fear of rejection, fear for DU's mental health, concern for daughter in law, anger. Possibly some understanding of SP. Even if they are misunderstanding the whole situation and just blaming SP, I have some sympathy for them. In their position I would be internally screaming, confused and would be trying to cope with very dark thoughts at times.

Yes, agreed. You’ve written that out so well.

Harassedevictee · 04/08/2025 12:31

nauticant · 04/08/2025 10:40

Could I ask for some help? I'm looking to make a list of the most eye-catching events in this case. Here's what I've knocked together. What other surprising things did people see?

Significant withholding of documents from the claimant in breach of a court order to disclose.

The bizarre assertions by Dr Beth Upton including that biological sex is a nebulous dog whistle and that he is a biological female because he is a biological being rather than a robot and is female.

A first investigation that was denied to have taken place at the start of the hearing while, at the end, not even the defence could motivate themselves to maintain the pretence that it hadn't happened.

The first investigation being horribly biased against Sandie Peggie. The second investigation being better but it was hard to see how it hadn't ended up being contaminated.

The cabal of 6 senior people in the secret email group with Upton added. This was a mix of those doing the investigating, being witnesses, and even being a party to the dispute. That there was a single incriminating (foot in mouth syndrome) email seemingly severed from the rest of the email chain in which they attempted to steer things to the detriment of Peggie.

Dr Kate Searle writing to many doctors to declare her allegiance. Getting one single equivocal reply with the recipients having far more sense than Searle.

The senior people aligning with Upton's account and against Peggie, and in interactions operating as though Upton was the most precious and valuable thing they'd ever come across in their lives.

Isla Bumba's declaration of not knowing her own sex. Searle as a consultant being hazy on what this sex thing was about. Maggie Currie being little better with her own deflections into "intersex".

The claimant's expert said that Upton's notes appeared to be dodgy in terms of the contemporaneity. The defendants' expert had a rough time in court.

Jane Russell's shenanigans including saying that the claimant's expert had been paid by the claimant's legal team to lie in the tribunal having no evidence whatsoever for such an extraordinary claim. Attempting to catch Peggie off-guard to disclose the source of her funding.

Peggie's contribution to the Benidorm group. Lindsey Nicoll dobbing in Peggie seemingly out of hatred and envy and shooting herself massively in the foot and dragging the rest of the group into a complete mess.

  • That NHSF didn’t have a policy regarding changing rooms, toilets etc. but every witness knew what the policy was.
  • The review of suspension was done correctly but KS, ED etc. tried to interfere and overturn the correct decision to end it.
  • The HCA who gave an accurate witness statement and clearly kept quiet about it. Far more integrity than senior Drs.
  • How many people didn’t think about the consequences of their actions e.g. KS enhancing the Datix report, DrUs belated professional misconduct allegations, LN not realising her GDPR breach would be revealed etc.
RethinkingLife · 04/08/2025 12:48

MC failing to recall grounds for the NMC referral- hampered, admittedly by the fact it hadn’t happened.

TheAutumnCrow · 04/08/2025 12:51

borntobequiet · 04/08/2025 11:02

I still think that the key to this is KS’s feelings towards DU, which seem to have been deeply unprofessional and emotionally driven. There’s no way she wouldn’t have affirmed and validated everything he said.

Yep, that was indicative of folie a deux type stuff, and a bit spooky imo.

NebulousSupportPostcard · 04/08/2025 12:53

Lins77 · 04/08/2025 11:37

Got to say, DU has given us some memorable quotes.

Nebulous dog whistle.
Sad times.
Big girl pants.

Weird.
Perhaps I need to be more stern the next time the Rota Coordinator asks me to work my contracted hours.

unwashedanddazed · 04/08/2025 13:03

KS stating at the end of her testimony that she still thinks SP committed a hate crime on Xmas eve despite their employer clearing SP of all wrong doing weeks before. She's completely in thrall to that man.

NotMyRealAccount · 04/08/2025 13:05

viques · 04/08/2025 11:19

I know we have had a lot of poems and song lyrics to keep us amused, but omg I do wish Gilbert and Sullivan were alive to do “ I am biologically female” the justice it deserves with tongue twisting, gender mangling, pronoun rich lyrics, joyful music and a rousing chorus - dressed in raspberry coloured scrubs.

I would love it if one of the G&S societies was brave enough to do a modernised production of Patience taking a pop at gender ideology. It will probably happen, but not quite yet.

OuterSpaceCadet · 04/08/2025 13:06

I'm only able to read approx 10% of these incredibly informative threads so soz if already mentioned.....

But I'm sure there was something about the internet connection mysteriously cutting in and out during DrU's online meeting with the phone expert?

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:07

WearyAuldWumman · 03/08/2025 16:39

The Courier today:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5299799/sandie-peggie-beth-upton-chaos-nhs-fife/

'New NHS Fife emails uncovered by The Courier can reveal the operational chaos caused by the Sandie Peggie and Beth Upton feud.
Health board chiefs wanted to ensure the nurse and the trans doctor would not work together again following the Christmas Eve 2023 changing row at Kirkcaldy’s Victoria Hospital – the catalyst for this year’s high-profile employment tribunal in Dundee.
And documents submitted to the tribunal lay bare the challenges bosses faced to keep them apart, including several near misses, after Ms Peggie returned from her controversial suspension.
Ms Peggie is suing NHS Fife and Dr Upton over claims she was sexually harassed and discriminated against.
‘Almost impossible’
NHS Fife staff immediately recognised the altercation between Ms Peggie and Dr Upton, born male, would cause staffing headaches during what was already a difficult period.
Esther Davidson, interim clinical nurse manager, admitted it would be “almost impossible” to stop them from crossing paths, according to HR officer Jacqueline Herkes.
In an email dated January 3, 2024, just over a week after the row, Ms Herkes said suspending Ms Peggie should be a “last resort”.

Sandie Peggie – a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy, arrives at the employment tribunal in Dundee. Image: PA
Other options were floated, including putting the Glenrothes mum on dayshifts or temporarily moving her to another department.
But Ms Herkes was unimpressed after being given advice* *that the A&E nurse should be suspended.
She wrote: “I reiterated our staffing crisis and how it was ludicrous to have a nurse at home, two nightshifts a week”.
Return to work
Ms Peggie’s suspension meant NHS Fife didn’t need to worry about her encountering Dr Upton for months.
However, rota problems soon surfaced when Ms Peggie was told on March 7 her suspension would be lifted.
It was initially proposed that the Victoria Hospital nurse should be moved onto dayshifts to be “supported” by senior staff.

Senior nurse Esther Davidson. Image: NHS Fife.
“I contacted HR on Thursday of last week, to get their take on her return,” said Ms Davidson, one of two line managers Ms Peggie had.
“They felt it was entirely reasonable for her to return and be supported on days, when there is senior staff available, this is also the feeling of both senior charge nurses and myself.”
But Ms Peggie was unwilling to do this, saying she would have to continue working nights for personal reasons.
NHS Fife service manager Charlotte Myles wrote to the A&E medic on March 28 saying a risk assessment determined she should not work at the same time as Dr Upton.
She would resume nightshifts after four weeks as part of a “phased return”.
But Ms Peggie wrote to Ms Myles saying: “I explained why this was so challenging for me and I must state that I do not accept that the conditions imposed by NHS Fife for my return to work are fair or necessary.”
The Fife nurse raised these concerns with her lawyer.
‘Compromise’ found
NHS Fife bosses managed to accommodate both staff members by moving Ms Peggie on to weekend nightshifts.
And on April 2, Ms Myles said a compromise was possible “as long as we can provide senior support” within the emergency department.

Dr Kate Searle arriving at tribunal in Dundee. Image: Steve MacDougall/DC Thomson.
She then asked Dr Kate Searle, Dr Upton’s boss, for a copy of Dr Upton’s shifts before expressing her support for the trans doctor.
Ms Myles added: “We can accommodate SP’s return to work so that Beth will not be on shift at the same time and there will be no opportunity in which SP will have contact with her.
“I fully appreciate your concern, and I am also here to support Beth during this time.”
Dr Searle replied: “Sandie should not be in the department at anytime Beth is, especially at the start/end of shifts ie. Changing room times.”
Near misses
Even after reaching a compromise, Ms Peggie and Dr Upton nearly ended up on the same shifts more than once due to rota mix-ups.
Emails sent by the doctor on September 30 last year reveal two “close calls”.
On the first occasion, Dr Upton was informed at less than 24 hours notice it was “not safe” to work a nightshift because Ms Peggie was down for a shift.
“This caused me a lot of anxiety especially as it was so short notice and hadn’t been noticed by my supervisor, but by one of the senior nurses,” Dr Upton wrote.

Dr Beth Upton. Image: Kenny Smith/DC Thomson.
“It also obviously disrupted my schedule and routine.
“I discussed this with my supervisor who was apologetic and resolved to find any further issues.”
A search by senior staff revealed another shift where the two had been rota’d to work at the same time.
Dr Upton said: “I have had an email from the rota coordinator who took me off the shift but is now asking me when I would like to rearrange the ‘missed’ night shift for.
“Being honest, I am a bit perturbed by this.
“I acknowledge I’m contracted to work a certain number of shifts but I find it difficult to accept that I need to disrupt my schedule to rearrange the shift given that the reason I didn’t work is nothing to do with me.
“It’s unclear if the other person has been asked to swap but given the ongoing legal and internal processes I can understand why the department is reluctant to engage her on this.
“I’m not sure whether this is something I should just accept in this instance and raise later, or whether I should be a bit more stern about it.”
It’s not known when Ms Peggie – currently absent from work – is likely to return.
Tribunal costs
As of June 30, the employment tribunal has already cost NHS Fife more than £258,000.
It’s expected this will have increased significantly during the second round of hearings between July 16 and July 29.
More than a dozen NHS Fife staff members – without even counting Ms Peggie and Dr Upton – have appeared at the tribunal.

Mid Scotland and Fife MSP Murdo Fraser. Image: Shutterstock.
Mid Scotland and Fife Tory MSP Murdo Fraser said the resources the health board had dedicated to the case were “unforgivable”.
“Every day more detail emerges about the failures of NHS Fife in the Sandie Peggie case,” he told The Courier.
“For a cash-strapped health board to waste so many resources defending the indefensible is unforgivable.”
A verdict for the tribunal is not expected until at least December.'

On the first occasion, Dr Upton was informed at less than 24 hours notice it was “not safe” to work a nightshift because Ms Peggie was down for a shift.
“This caused me a lot of anxiety especially as it was so short notice and hadn’t been noticed by my supervisor, but by one of the senior nurses,” Dr Upton wrote.
Dr Upton said: “I have had an email from the rota coordinator who took me off the shift but is now asking me when I would like to rearrange the ‘missed’ night shift for.
“Being honest, I am a bit perturbed by this.
“I acknowledge I’m contracted to work a certain number of shifts but I find it difficult to accept that I need to disrupt my schedule to rearrange the shift given that the reason I didn’t work is nothing to do with me."

FFS, that's the epitome of luxury definition of "not safe" isn't it?

And everyone's happy for Sandie to have to completely rearrange her life to work days instead of nights

I'm running out of FFSs

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:13

NebulousSupportPostcard · 03/08/2025 21:09

I still can't get over Upton describing the alleged ignoring as a 'patient safety' issue because HE wouldn't be able to care for patients if he was upset by being ignored. He described it as though it were a live incident like an explosion or RTA when he said patients safety means "individual safety first, then the team, then the patient". I mean, absolutely if you are pulling people from a burning building you have to keep yourself out of danger first or nobody's getting saved, but the idea that his feelings trump the safety of the patient in front of him in A&E is utterly ludicrous.

'patients safety means "individual safety first, then the team, then the patient"'

OMG, did he actually say that? I think I must have missed that in all of the . . .everything . . .

He said that about Sandie replying to a nursing assistant instead of directly to him (even though he was, by his report, waving at her one metre from her face).

Fucking hell.

Lins77 · 04/08/2025 13:16

OuterSpaceCadet · 04/08/2025 13:06

I'm only able to read approx 10% of these incredibly informative threads so soz if already mentioned.....

But I'm sure there was something about the internet connection mysteriously cutting in and out during DrU's online meeting with the phone expert?

Yeah, there was. Mysterious gaps in the Teams meeting. Weird, sad times.

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:17

NotNatacha · 04/08/2025 01:42

I paid my £1 for a 3 month subscription to the Courier and the Scottish Herald. Their summaries were helpful at the time.

This is why I came across this article in the Herald, under the headline “Beth Upton's life and identity have been dragged through the media”.
It was written by the chief executive of the Equality Network.

Apologies if it’s paywalled, but here are some extracts.

A paragraph near the start:
Often, some people’s outrage is platformed, reported, given airtime, whilst others’ is not. Take for example the biggest Trans Pride March in the history of the UK – which happened in London last weekend – where reportedly 100 thousand LGBT+ people and their allies stood in solidarity and showed their outrage at recent decisions affecting trans people’s lives and at how this community are being scapegoated, demonised and weaponised. This was barely covered by the media.

It continues
Beth Upton, an ordinary person doing her ordinary job, has now suffered her very existence discussed as though public property. Without, of course, any insight into her life, her reality, her experiences, her truth. On the other hand, Sandie Peggie has had an unfathomable amount of space in the media, and access to elected officials, to share hers.

The article ends:
Beth Upton went to work on Christmas Eve as herself, she carried on as no doubt she would on any normal day. Since then, her life, her body and her identity have been dissected and dragged through countless media articles, through a lengthy, at times cruel and gruelling tribunal process. Her mere presence as herself at work was challenged. At no point did we hear from her in the media, at no point was her story told, at no point have we heard about the effect this has had on her, her working life, her family and loved ones.
Instead, we have seen countless coverage sharing Sandie Peggie’s side. Now we are seeing illuminated some of the other side of that coin. Though we still don’t see Beth Upton’s side – her story, her humanity, perhaps deemed irrelevant to the toxic narrative many are intent on furthering. The side that allows Beth Upton her humanity, allows her awful experience to be shared, her supporters to be seen is, much like Trans Pride in London, invisible. This, and this week's revelations regarding Sandie Peggie’s views, should give people serious pause for thought.

"Beth Upton went to work on Christmas Eve as herself, she carried on as no doubt she would on any normal day."

To be fair, the 'carrying on' bit rings true.

NebulousSadTimes · 04/08/2025 13:17

"I find it difficult to accept that I need to disrupt my schedule to rearrange the shift given that the reason I didn’t work is nothing to do with me."

Nothing to do with him? The whole fucking (s)hebang is about him.

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:19

anyolddinosaur · 04/08/2025 08:15

It's possible to support Sandie and still feel some sympathy for Upton. His problems are of his own making but there were plenty of people who could have helped him see he was being an arse and instead happily acclaimed him and encouraged him to make everything worse. Unfortunately I doubt if any of them would change their behaviour in future.

Honestly, having heard his pontificating during the tribunal in February, I'm not sure how far they'd have got. He came across as VERY supercilious and patronising.

Multidimensionalsexbeing · 04/08/2025 13:22

Well there was IB googling for a policy.
Then the penny drop moment when whoever-it-was realised she had not once considered SP's wellbeing, even while running round making sure the whole department looked after poor Beth. Great NC moment.
Another NC moment:
Big Sond "would you like time for reflection?
NC: "No."

KeepTalkingBeth · 04/08/2025 13:23

OuterSpaceCadet · 04/08/2025 13:06

I'm only able to read approx 10% of these incredibly informative threads so soz if already mentioned.....

But I'm sure there was something about the internet connection mysteriously cutting in and out during DrU's online meeting with the phone expert?

Yes! Premeditated, thoroughly planned tampering of evidence

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:25

prh47bridge · 04/08/2025 10:52

JR asking SP about her instructions to counsel ("Did you tell your counsel to compare DU to torturer in 1984"). A barrister is not allowed to ask questions that seek to elicit privileged information. This question and the question about SP's funding are a clear breach of ethical standards.

Yes, and JR asking the IT specialist about being payed for testimony, and him replying "yes, I'm being paid, just like you are".

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:27

Redshoeblueshoe · 04/08/2025 11:05

Kate Searle to NC "You can't prove it" 😂

Please remind me what that was a reply to - I seem to have blocked it out!

NoBinturongsHereMate · 04/08/2025 13:29

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:27

Please remind me what that was a reply to - I seem to have blocked it out!

Something to do with the missing emails, but I can't remember the exact detail that couldn't be proved.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 04/08/2025 13:30

"6th best option" was another classic moment.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 04/08/2025 13:30

StellaAndCrow · 04/08/2025 13:13

'patients safety means "individual safety first, then the team, then the patient"'

OMG, did he actually say that? I think I must have missed that in all of the . . .everything . . .

He said that about Sandie replying to a nursing assistant instead of directly to him (even though he was, by his report, waving at her one metre from her face).

Fucking hell.

Upton is technically correct. As a doctor you first need to ensure your own safety as you are no use to the patient if you are incapacitated. When you do the Advanced Trauma Life Support course & have to act out scenarios with fake patients the first question you ask is "Is it safe to approach the patient?" However this is more in relation to avoiding an axe-wielding lunatic or a collapsing building or vehicle on fire rather than attending a patient in a hospital bed.

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