NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #49

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025

Also February, at the start of a lunch break Upton caught giving NC the death stare as he slowly walked past her desk. Unbelievable. Is he seven?

NC blithely ignoring him.😀

I'm still shocked at the knee-jerk reaction after hearing only one side of the story. I wonder how much it was influenced by the sobbing and weeping and wailing of one party (poor fragile thing needing protected) and apparent calmness of the other (mean scary nurse). Either way, it's remarkable to me that they were so quick to take one person's word without hearing from the other. And going a lot further in KS's case - actively interfering in the investigation!

You did request it! My tuppenorth:
TOTP: use of correct pronouns
NHSF attempts to hold hearings in secret.
Failures to disclose by Fife
Two separate episodes of witness collusion

Relatively minor:
Upton's scarf, (& its shedding).
The absence of corroboration for Upton's teary tsunami. in a busy A&E department, contrasted with his confident, verbose & obtuse testimony.
Bumba getting her lead job with a complete lack of relevant required experience.

IB declaring her allyship to LGBTQ in her email signature with nothing about the other protected characteristics that presumably come under her role.

I bet NC will have tales to tell when she is ready.

I know we have had a lot of poems and song lyrics to keep us amused, but omg I do wish Gilbert and Sullivan were alive to do “ I am biologically female” the justice it deserves with tongue twisting, gender mangling, pronoun rich lyrics, joyful music and a rousing chorus - dressed in raspberry coloured scrubs.

@nauticant
a) the fact that Searle's email was a databreech
b) she hadn't even spoken to Peggie
c) the amount of colluding going on before ANYONE spoke to Peggie
d) the amount of running around with concern about duty of care to Upton but not to Peggie (Basically the Doctors v Nurses dynamic)
e) the total lack of policy anywhere despite Bumba being asked about trans stuff so regularly
f) the use of the word 'safety' with regards to Upton a 6'2" bloke who needed escorting to the car by a woman who was probably only just shy of a foot shorter than him
g) the total lack of thought to the 'safety' of women in a changing room with men.
h) the fact that the word 'safety' was used about hurty words in the first place to a doctor who works in an A&E and is likely to come across all sorts. Upton was NOT the person who started this narative of 'safety'. This was allies who got carried away pandering and purity spiralling.
i) the point where it was asked what process and steps could Peggie have taken that she didn't when she was distressed / concerned over the matter and the admission she was completely fucked as there wasn't a way she could
j) the lack of proper coordination and oversight between HR, DEI and Legal departments. None of them knew what any of the others did and what their responsibility were. The fact that DEI took the lead over HR and Legal stand out most as one of the reasons why NHS Fife got into this mess in the first place
k) The collective amnesia at NHS Fife which begs for investigation in case there is an underlying issue with memory loss in the area. Maaybe theres something in the water. Of course they could have recorded issues at the time as part of due process, but... "I don't recall".
l) The Sad Times note. The notes generally didn't match the drama that everyone later then (amazing memory this) did recall
m) JR slowly starting to lose the plot in court as the case went on, and all her witnesses for the Defence turns out to be utter turkeys leaving her up shit creek with only heresay, gossip and nasty accusations as a place to go. All the shitty little snipes with namecalling came latter on. As did the argument over pronouns and the extensive loss of time in private meetings and clear attempts to filibuster witnesses.
n) NC saying no.

Upton sobbing dramatically all Christmas but then deciding to put his BIG GIRL PANTS ON and return to the scne of the crime for MORE DRAMATIC SOBBING.

NHS Fife's appalling lack of disclosure ahead of the first set of tribunal dates.

I am still not convinced they disclosed everything relevant second time round either!

I'm absolutely certain the escorting to the car was to make sure he was off the premises and enable poor Dr Pitt to finally get home without risk of a further scene breaking out.

The big girl pants remark in combination with the performative bra wearing is particularly nauseating.

We are afraid that if we don't reply you will run to the Mumsnet Mods IN YOUR SOCKS and sob that we have denied your very existence and humanity when all you wanted to do was live your life!

Yes I agree with this take on Dr Pitt. I'm trying to remember if Dr Pitt knew what sex she was.

@nauticant

first of all a belated thank you for your sterling work, there are many others too, whose determination and ability to cut through the waffle have ensured that so many people have been enlightened, amused, bemused , horrified and left speechless as this debacle unfolded. Thank you again.

As for your memorable moments collection I think “ nebulous dog whistle “ has to be in there both as an example of DUs dismissive contempt and entitlement and as an object lesson to all future ET lawyers to make careful note of words spoken and have the perspicacity to bring them out of their back pocket and serve them back over the net as an ace five months later.

We need Pete the Plumber to bring a complaint against Naomi Cunningham for breach of confidentiality, and for each party to represent themselves in a Dundee Employment Tribunal Christmas Pantomime, presided over by Judge Kemp.

The number of interruptions from JR in the Feb NC questioning of Upton. The ridiculous length of Upton’s replies. The attempt to coerce NC’s speech and the resulting ‘oh!’ from JR.

The doctoring of notes. The lies. The gaslighting.

THEY DIDNT SPEAK TO SANDIE FOR WEEKS AFTER THEY SUSPENDED HER.

ooo I’m all cross now 🤭

Got to say, DU has given us some memorable quotes.

Nebulous dog whistle.
Sad times.
Big girl pants.

Yes, I think that was what the witness from SM was saying she had taken a phone call about. I'm not sure if they were withholding it or screening it and then sending it on.

We must never forget.

"I'm not a robot, I'm biological. And I'm a woman. Therefore I'm a biological woman"

• or words close to that in slightly different form

What Naomi never made clear was if Pete was in there to fix a bit of plumbing or to get changed into his overalls. I'm not sure either. I got left outside the door!

I'd also add the probably deliberate interruptions online in the Feb proceedings, then furthermore the cynical attempt to blacken the name of TT and also get them barred from live tweeting.

It would be unkind of me to ask how the attempts to get rid of TT turned out.

All of which had the what? (someone remind me)

oh yes the overall effect of making the online live audience FOUR TIMES BIGGER, additional rooms for in-situ in-person observation via local video link, and allowing TT to be treated as de facto journalists / press observers.

yeah, all of that

Oh goodness, yes. With a score in the style of G&S - I have an ear worm of the General's song now!

Michael Foran in the Critic

https://thecritic.co.uk/sandie-peggie-and-the-struggle-for-single-sex-spaces/

The invisible Jamie Doyle

Do you think Upton models their ‘stern face’ on Miss Jean Brodie? Or perhaps Nicola Sturgeon?

STERN TIMES!