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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #49

1000 replies

nauticant · 31/07/2025 13:22

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025

OP posts:
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nauticant · 04/08/2025 10:40

Could I ask for some help? I'm looking to make a list of the most eye-catching events in this case. Here's what I've knocked together. What other surprising things did people see?

Significant withholding of documents from the claimant in breach of a court order to disclose.

The bizarre assertions by Dr Beth Upton including that biological sex is a nebulous dog whistle and that he is a biological female because he is a biological being rather than a robot and is female.

A first investigation that was denied to have taken place at the start of the hearing while, at the end, not even the defence could motivate themselves to maintain the pretence that it hadn't happened.

The first investigation being horribly biased against Sandie Peggie. The second investigation being better but it was hard to see how it hadn't ended up being contaminated.

The cabal of 6 senior people in the secret email group with Upton added. This was a mix of those doing the investigating, being witnesses, and even being a party to the dispute. That there was a single incriminating (foot in mouth syndrome) email seemingly severed from the rest of the email chain in which they attempted to steer things to the detriment of Peggie.

Dr Kate Searle writing to many doctors to declare her allegiance. Getting one single equivocal reply with the recipients having far more sense than Searle.

The senior people aligning with Upton's account and against Peggie, and in interactions operating as though Upton was the most precious and valuable thing they'd ever come across in their lives.

Isla Bumba's declaration of not knowing her own sex. Searle as a consultant being hazy on what this sex thing was about. Maggie Currie being little better with her own deflections into "intersex".

The claimant's expert said that Upton's notes appeared to be dodgy in terms of the contemporaneity. The defendants' expert had a rough time in court.

Jane Russell's shenanigans including saying that the claimant's expert had been paid by the claimant's legal team to lie in the tribunal having no evidence whatsoever for such an extraordinary claim. Attempting to catch Peggie off-guard to disclose the source of her funding.

Peggie's contribution to the Benidorm group. Lindsey Nicoll dobbing in Peggie seemingly out of hatred and envy and shooting herself massively in the foot and dragging the rest of the group into a complete mess.

OP posts:
HamSandwichIrnBru · 04/08/2025 10:45

Witnesses conspiring at lunchtime and trying to use me as an alibi 😡

KeepTalkingBeth · 04/08/2025 10:46

Embellishing of the datix report

KS allegedly approaching witnesses (Rohanna)

Sandie being suspended against HR advice. This needs repeating time and time again

HamSandwichIrnBru · 04/08/2025 10:47

Kate Searle's attempts to interfere with a witness, then to claim she was trying to "protect" her because she's mixed-race.

Londonmummy66 · 04/08/2025 10:47

Thank you for sharing the article - always good to read another perspective. No doubt BU is having a hard time but it is self inflicted even if it didn't go the he thought it would.

However where the article massively misses the point is that the tribunal case has arisen solely because ONLY BU's point of view was heard - he was allowed in the ladies regardless of how anyone else using it felt because his feelings and comfort were paramount. On Christmas Eve he was comforted and walked to his car, KS gathered the flying monkeys on his behalf and SP was suspended without having her side of the story heard at all just so DU wouldn't feel uncomfortable continuing to use the ladies. Had NHS Fife been balanced and listened to everyone's point of view and balanced everyone's interests DU would have been in the unhappy position of not having his identity reinforced by being inflicted on the women but his privacy would not have been breached across the national media.

Actually for balance I have a bit of sympathy for Dr Pitt - think she just wanted to resolve the immediate situation as fast as possible and get home for Christmas. She seems to have stepped right back thereafter.

nauticant · 04/08/2025 10:48

You people are coming up with the goods. Thanks.

OP posts:
KeepTalkingBeth · 04/08/2025 10:48

The delay in the investigation(s)

The letter that Sandie never got because it was never sent out

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/08/2025 10:49

nauticant · 04/08/2025 10:40

Could I ask for some help? I'm looking to make a list of the most eye-catching events in this case. Here's what I've knocked together. What other surprising things did people see?

Significant withholding of documents from the claimant in breach of a court order to disclose.

The bizarre assertions by Dr Beth Upton including that biological sex is a nebulous dog whistle and that he is a biological female because he is a biological being rather than a robot and is female.

A first investigation that was denied to have taken place at the start of the hearing while, at the end, not even the defence could motivate themselves to maintain the pretence that it hadn't happened.

The first investigation being horribly biased against Sandie Peggie. The second investigation being better but it was hard to see how it hadn't ended up being contaminated.

The cabal of 6 senior people in the secret email group with Upton added. This was a mix of those doing the investigating, being witnesses, and even being a party to the dispute. That there was a single incriminating (foot in mouth syndrome) email seemingly severed from the rest of the email chain in which they attempted to steer things to the detriment of Peggie.

Dr Kate Searle writing to many doctors to declare her allegiance. Getting one single equivocal reply with the recipients having far more sense than Searle.

The senior people aligning with Upton's account and against Peggie, and in interactions operating as though Upton was the most precious and valuable thing they'd ever come across in their lives.

Isla Bumba's declaration of not knowing her own sex. Searle as a consultant being hazy on what this sex thing was about. Maggie Currie being little better with her own deflections into "intersex".

The claimant's expert said that Upton's notes appeared to be dodgy in terms of the contemporaneity. The defendants' expert had a rough time in court.

Jane Russell's shenanigans including saying that the claimant's expert had been paid by the claimant's legal team to lie in the tribunal having no evidence whatsoever for such an extraordinary claim. Attempting to catch Peggie off-guard to disclose the source of her funding.

Peggie's contribution to the Benidorm group. Lindsey Nicoll dobbing in Peggie seemingly out of hatred and envy and shooting herself massively in the foot and dragging the rest of the group into a complete mess.

Upton trying to make NC use the term “cis” by pretending not to understand any of the ways she described actual women.

Londonmummy66 · 04/08/2025 10:51

@nauticant - an A&E consultant being unable to sex a newborn baby

HamSandwichIrnBru · 04/08/2025 10:51

@nauticant
OMG! The Statement from NHS Fife! How could we forget?!

prh47bridge · 04/08/2025 10:52

JR asking SP about her instructions to counsel ("Did you tell your counsel to compare DU to torturer in 1984"). A barrister is not allowed to ask questions that seek to elicit privileged information. This question and the question about SP's funding are a clear breach of ethical standards.

HamSandwichIrnBru · 04/08/2025 10:57

Upton saying he'd attend a female patient who had asked for a female doctor, and if she objected he'd have the hospital refuse to treat her (I'm paraphrasing but it was along those lines).

SadSadTimes · 04/08/2025 10:57

Back in February, Upton not showing up on the day he was to start evidence (if I am remembering correctly) and then being hours late the next day. Arriving surrounded by a bubble of protectors. Chairs being set up behind his own chair before he entered court so his Wall of Sad could be accommodated.

As though he was royalty, and they his acolytes.

His friends sitting directly behind NC to either intimidate her or read her notes. Or both.

NC asking them to shift seats, them refusing. NC forced to bring it to Judge's notice when they resumed session. The Judge asking them to re-locate.

PetethePlumbersToolkit · 04/08/2025 11:01

They didn't call me as a witness...

Thinking about the point made a couple of pages back, NHSF probably didn't think beyond getting rid of the issue via suspension of Sandie until Upton finished in the department. I have no doubt that there would have been another Sandie at some point in a different department or hospital, repeat ad nauseum, and you'd end up with nurses who had a blemish in an otherwise fine career record. Not to mention the nurses who would quietly find somewhere else to change, move job to remove themselves from the problem. Yet it seems that the problem was already known about from a previous hospital... We never did get that witness who wrote about that!

Probably the only people who Upton might listen to are his parents. If they dared to speak the truth to him. My guess is they are all too high profile to risk mud landing directly on them.

nauticant · 04/08/2025 11:02

I thought I'd get a handful of replies. I feel like I've tapped into a massive reserve and will be struggling to contain the flow of "and this, and this, and this ..."

OP posts:
Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 04/08/2025 11:02

Wasn't there an issue with Sandie's post being held at the hospital and her not seeing it?

borntobequiet · 04/08/2025 11:02

anyolddinosaur · 04/08/2025 09:10

Apart from his family the one who should have been telling him was Dr Searle. A woman crying over a few unkind words would have been told she'd face much worse in a&e and perhaps it was not the right specialty for her. Upton might have tried asking for a different supervisor but the power imbalance there is such that even Upton would have thought twice about criticising a more senior doctor.

I still think that the key to this is KS’s feelings towards DU, which seem to have been deeply unprofessional and emotionally driven. There’s no way she wouldn’t have affirmed and validated everything he said.

TheKeatingFive · 04/08/2025 11:03

SadSadTimes · 04/08/2025 10:57

Back in February, Upton not showing up on the day he was to start evidence (if I am remembering correctly) and then being hours late the next day. Arriving surrounded by a bubble of protectors. Chairs being set up behind his own chair before he entered court so his Wall of Sad could be accommodated.

As though he was royalty, and they his acolytes.

His friends sitting directly behind NC to either intimidate her or read her notes. Or both.

NC asking them to shift seats, them refusing. NC forced to bring it to Judge's notice when they resumed session. The Judge asking them to re-locate.

What a bunch of little w*nkers

RabbitFurCoat · 04/08/2025 11:03

JR demanding to know how Sandie Peggie was funding her side in things. The audacity.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 04/08/2025 11:04

KeepTalkingBeth · 04/08/2025 10:46

Embellishing of the datix report

KS allegedly approaching witnesses (Rohanna)

Sandie being suspended against HR advice. This needs repeating time and time again

There was no allegedly about it. KS admitted speaking to Rohanna & admitted that on reflection it was unwise.

HamSandwichIrnBru · 04/08/2025 11:05

HamSandwichIrnBru · 04/08/2025 10:51

@nauticant
OMG! The Statement from NHS Fife! How could we forget?!

Also the response from the Information Commissioner. That was a highlight for me.

Redshoeblueshoe · 04/08/2025 11:05

Kate Searle to NC "You can't prove it" 😂

myplace · 04/08/2025 11:05

@nauticant I feel your list could benefit from ‘Schrödinger’ preceding most points.
Schrödinger‘s investigation.
Schrödinger‘s sex
Schrodinger’s email etc.
Schrödinger‘s racism/homophobia etc

Never was there so uncertain a series of events.

Londonmummy66 · 04/08/2025 11:08

Back to people who didn't get asked for their side of the story... I'm sure Pete the Plumber is not happy about the world knowing he likes to frequent the ladies.

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