NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

Stuffed with tissue like me and my mates before ours developed. Or chicken fillets. And he has to live as a laydee remember. Don't even want to think about the rest of his underwear

Looking like JR and NHSF are hitting a legal brick wall and nowhere to go.

Wonder what advice JR has given to NHSF re the chances of winning this case?

Withdraw or keep going as they have come so far whats a few more £1000s in legal costs?

Yes, my DH made an interesting point.

He said 'of course the tribunal judges want you to report, you are actually showing the public what they do, how interesting, challenging, important it is. Being an employment judge is like owning cats. High court, criminal judges get all the publicity - like when you take your dogs out for walks everyone can see them. But people who have cats need to post photos and videos of them on line'

He then went on to talk about the relative proportion of cat, dog and rabbit content on line and I stopped listening. But the first part was good.

‘Honestly M’lud, you’ve no idea how respectful and lovely BU is, he always makes sure his cock and balls are covered and he even goes the extra mile by wearing a bra to cover up the breasts he doesn’t have, whereas SP, she’s just a hateful bigot’.

Yes definitely got properly fitting bras here, but still hate them. They are a necessary evil as far as I'm concerned.

First thing I do when I get home is wheech it off, and if I'm not having to go out that day I'm not wearing that bastard torture device!

I've recently changed to bras with no underwire and it's helped a lot. I'm not getting sore ribs where the underwire would normally rest, and no more bras trying to puncture me when the wire escapes!

I think they're digging their own grave here, allowing this mud slinging, because it clearly demonstrates that this is not a safe place of work for SP to return to, and if they lose, it could amount to further damages awarded.

All of their remarks so far have been pure hearsay, and a perpetuation of bullying.

Whether SP does in fact hold these views is entirely against the point, hardly anyone has come forward with a factual account of what happened with a reliable memory.

I know for certain if one of my colleagues said something absolutely slanderous against another it would be living in my head rent free and I would be able to recall with a modicum of accuracy what was said, and where it was said.

I'd not be forgetting it.

I read Hard Times at university, and i had completely wiped it from my memory bank.
I hated it!

The mention of Mr Gradgrind unlocked a massive memory gap.
Which I always appreciate, actually. My memory is appalling, so any shake of the Memory Tree is appreciated.

It occurred to me the other day that I can't remember the last time I heard the word "xenophobic" used. It used to be fairly common, but the convention is now to skip it and go straight from "anti-immigration" to "racist", skipping "xenophobic" altogether. Regardless of the race of anyone involved.

That Fiona reminds me of women I worked with. Uggh some memories there.

If Sandie had said something that derogatory about Muslims why hasn't Fiona reported it?

She's under an obligation under the NMC to do so.

I thought nurses and doctors were being actively recruited from overseas because there are big shortages in both categories, and the difficulty in getting jobs is to do with management of vacancies, not competition?

I don't believe those comments. You'd be mad to say that in public, amongst work colleagues, in an environment where there are so many mixed race people.

I've had one bra from them, but I still didn't like it.

I have never ordered any others from them, because I just hate the idea that I have to pay Big Boob Tax because the good lord created me with a lack of social skills and made up for it in additional breast tissue.

I do have a T shirt that says "my eyes are up there but I hate eye contact so just keep looking here" though.

I can see why NC wants to bring additional evidence. Given the time constraints, I don't understand why all the racism stuff is being allowed, especially as it is hearsay. It seems a lazy tactic especially if you argue SP shouldn't have a right of reply.

😂 at 3' of that is the boobage

Definitely don't envy you those incredibly heavy baps! I'm busty and short too but holy moly wifey!

Who actually says 'derogatory remarks' in real life? It does not feel authentic. Maybe rude remarks, slurs, crude joke, etc but 'derogatory' doesn't ring true.

It's not a Scottish thing is it?

I’ve struggled to keep up - are FW and LC recently added witnesses? If so, why didn’t they come forward sooner?

There are thousands of unemployed junior doctors who have completed their F2 rotations and unable to get specialist training posts because they are having to compete against any international doctor who wants to come here - no priority is given to UK residents/graduates. It is a scandal and a huge waste of money training them to put them in that position.

Isn’t this focus on racism proving that the only protected characteristic that Fife cared about was gender reassignment?

(Alleged) racist comments being made all over the place: no complaints, no suspension, nothing

challenging a man in the fcr: Armageddon

I don’t see how it helps their case - even if they’re true, which seems questionable - because it just shows that their behaviour was disproportionate.

(And my PS re Upton appealing/taking further action - it seems to me that he might have a case that he shld have had separate representation to Fife as their goals aren’t aligned but I don’t know whether that means he shld sue Fife, JR, or appeal the tribunal’s judgement)

It also seems odd that the only comment they can 'remember' is so extreme.

0 to 300 in 1 second, surely there would have been a few test the water comments prior to that? Which makes me think it didn't happen at all.

Are they prosthetics? Like props, an already heavily filled in bra, or ones you can place the props inside the cups. Don’t know. Just supposing.

I hope she gets asked this.

If Sandie is going around calling trans people it, slagging off Muslims, banging on about anti-immigration, in the bloody NHS of us of all places, she wouldn't be having a 30 year unblemished record.

Plus, freak and weirdo, just don't seem like plausible words to me. They are the go-to language of people trying to think what a woman would say. A woman who is truly uncomfortable would use different language.

It's akin to TRA speak. Thinking of an insult, but not really understanding the reasons why women are so offended, and would therefore use different language.

Sad times.. The Pickle Sisters are a made up thing :(

https://leavesoftrash.com/desperately-seeking-the-pickle-sisters/

The Pratchett Singularity remains unachieved.

The joy of my X algorithms suggests that there are a lot of graduating nurses and medics who are struggling to find jobs. Perhaps it is because they have to carry on being trained but the overseas ones don't (so a lot cheaper)?

I'd love somebody to confirm one way or another at is seems an absolute scandal to my mind.

And although 'sexual orientation' was mentioned, there's no example of it in FW's evidence - yet? so far? is JR going to continue with her after lunch?