NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

The BBC and Independent will lead with that, for sure. The Guardian may well wake up and remember it's happening and go for it too.

This is terrible.

Surely if this witness heard SP making comments about immigration that were nasty enough to be relevant at an ET, they would have been nasty enough that she should have bloody reported them at the time?!

(...leaving aside that it's hard to see how arguably having questionable political views means you deserve to have to get changed in front of a hulking geezer & STFU about it...).

This is all so... icky. Just absolute scorched earth.

The image of walking in on Upton wearing a bra made me throw up in my mouth a bit though.

From TT

JR - a page from soc media about mosques, comment about that issue
FW - lunch, she made reference to mosque being built in Kirkcaldy, she had a mind to post <missed> through the letter box, I remembered because I found it offensive
JR - how did others respond
FW - I can't remember, she made derogatory remarks about Beth, my colleague LN responded.
JR - anything beyond, freak etc.
FW - no, nothing else.
J - thank you, we will break for lunch.

Court rises. End of morning session

Bladdy hell, that is not a good look for Wee Sondie. At all.

Ms Wishart said: “I have heard [Ms Peggie] make derogatory remarks regarding people of other ethnic origins and people of other sexual orientations.”
She added: “She’s referred to immigrants as needing to go back to their own country, they are coming over here to steal our jobs.
“These are opinions that don’t align with me.”
Ms Wishart added: “There is a mosque being built in Kirkcaldy and [Ms Peggie] made reference that she had a good mind to post bacon through their letterboxes.
“I specifically remember it because I found it offensive.”

I've just had a promo for a Mumsnet Sunday "talk roundup" pop up on this thread: "Every Sunday, we bring you the funniest and most entertaining threads on Mumsnet. Featuring a quote of the week that celebrates the best user moments, we dive into the threads that have made us laugh, cry and shake our heads in disbelief. It’s the perfect mix of humour and community spirit to keep you entertained and connected".

I wonder whether Pete the Plumber and Fifer feature?

'Immigrants coming to steal our jobs' isn't necessarily derogatory about people of different ethnic origins, is it? Anyway, even if she said this, does this mean she deserves to be forced to share a changing room with a man?

I always wear a bra, not wearing one is uncomfortable...are you sure you all have a proper fitting one?

First job aged 17 was M&S lingerie department. Now that was proper work experience, all female team 😉

Crikey. Being against uncontrolled mass immigration is NOT the same as racism. So many of us are mixed-race and are against uncontrolled mass immigration.

I'm not surprised Sandie wants to get back in the chair.
Perhaps to make it clear that Fiona is a vicious gossip and she's never said anything of the sort.

The posting bacon through mosque letterbox just seems weird. It's something I've seen posted a lot on FB but I find it hard to believe Sandie would say this in front of random colleagues. Especially knowing that many would find it offensive.

Ewww.

seriously. Read the room you people

Ms Wishart added: “There is a mosque being built in Kirkcaldy and [Ms Peggie] made reference that she had a good mind to post bacon through their letterboxes.

This would be a horrible thing for anyone to have said. If in fact it was said at all.

Regardless, even if Sandie Peggie did say this (I doubt all of NHS Fife's witnesses credibility), she still has rights and shouldn't be made to undress in front of men!

My whomps are HH, and it doesn't matter how many times I go for fittings, they're just that heavy, and the straps so thick that it's really uncomfortable on the shoulders.

I am in the let 'em swing club.

No idea what size I am. I only wear sports bras or stretchy things with racer backs.. Can't be doing with fitted bras or falling straps

ETA. Not wearing one is when I'm most comfy. Nothing better than taking it off and that relief ...

It doesn’t matter if it makes headlines, even if the could prove without doubt that SP is a racist, which I highly doubt, that isn’t what the panel are ruling on, that isn’t part of their remit. It seems clear to me that JR is using smoke and mirrors because she knows very well that this isn’t going well for her, Upton or NHS Fife. SP isn’t being judged in the court of public opinion but it an actual court where facts matter. The panel will be able to see exactly what this is, an attempt for a bit more smearing of SP before these new witnesses appear, because I get the feeling that this new evidence is dynamite, and JR knows it.

Keep Calm and Carry On.

Why is he wearing a bra? He doesn't have breasts!😂

OMG HH here as well perhaps we are all part of some weird cloning experiment

Christ, i’ve read War and Peace this morning!

Agree, Sandie seems a pragmatic woman, and even if she thought that, which I don't necessarily believe, she doesn't seem to be the type to be foolish enough to say it at a work lunch.

And either way, it's irrelevant to the case in point.

Fife are just mobilising their shit flinging gibbons again.

I got really poor genetics, I'm 4'11, and 3' of that is just boobs.

The tribunal has a very tight focus on the issues in hand, I can’t see the panel taking this hearsay into account at all, it had nothing to do with the disciplinary procedure. Reeks of desperation, even spite. An abuse of absolute privilege?

Seems ill-judged of JR, I can’t think NHS Fife would choose this tactic, perhaps an instruction from DU?

Witness testimony like this will be detrimental from moral and cohesion amongst the HCP staff at the Trust.

Well, it usually is mostly about people of different ethnic origins because immigrants usually are of different racial, ethnic and national origins.

It doesn't change the core issue, but there's no getting around the fact that it's not a good look, and it will make the headlines.

I guess we can expect a X along these lines?

If you saw one of your colleagues giving substandard care to a patient, you’d have a duty to report it?

And you’d have a duty to report it whatever the reason, whether it was racially motivated or not?

Have you ever reported Sandy Peggie for substandard care?

Immigration is a massive problem in medicine at the moment, nurses and doctors coming off training aren't managing to get jobs competing with overseas applications.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead have you ever tried Bravissimo? Honestly some women find the right bra and it's a revelation...