NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

So did i!

You spoke too soon the J has left the room now.

Weird Sad times. Fiona Wishart up next for 1/2 hour or less in chief. J v stern about qus (of both sides for all witnesses) being relevant and helpful to tribunal.

from herald
12:09pm
We're back. That obviously wasn't a five minute break.
Employment Judge Sandy Kemp has said that "in principle", it is permissible to recall the additional witnesses and to recall Sandie Peggie.
But he says the condition is that questioning must be completely relevant to the issues.
There will also be time limits put in place to allow evidence to conclude by 4pm tomorrow.
We're about to hear from Fiona Wishart, an emergency nurse practitioner.

Oh mine refused to talk to the wifi from the off, I could never be arsed sorting it, so I have to take my laptop through every bloody time

Judge has gone to see the clerk

And he's back

Doing the oath.

Hopefully he'll call JR out now when she starts the inevitable derailing of SP's witnesses.

From TT

Big Sond continues ... The evidence of LN may be tangential to the main issues. On submissions, we are going to take stock at the end of day tomorrow. We will see how we go before we impose time limits. And where are we on witnesses?

JR - I would like to call FW now.
J - are you able to ask all your qs.

JR, yes. <leaves to get witness> <brief pause whilst waiting for witness>

Big Sond is updatin the Whatsapps. "I've got thae lawyers sortit oot the noo, shotgun on the kert, see yes on the green at the back ae five as usual."

DH did mine last Thursday. He loves ironing even more than I do,

Is her surname Wheesht as in women won't?

Herald not quite right. No time limits imposed yet, but v stern tone around relevant qu's and overall need to finish witnesses in remaining time.

FW - Fiona Elizabeth Wishart, have been at Fife for 41 years since I completed training

even longer than SP!

Imposing a time limit on both JR and NC is no good if he then allows JR to fillibust and use up all the time,

Remember DrU may appeal, they have a lot at risk with the professional misconduct claims backfiring and their true belief they are a “biological woman”. The career and mental impact on DrU could be huge. Plus he is “representing his community”.

As a pp and NC points out this is the first case to use the CS judgement and JR plans to argue that is about women on boards only. Fife and NHS Scotland do not want this case to uphold the EA2010 that “woman” means biological female and their, and all NNS Scotland, would have to change their policies. They may find they are told to appeal on the point of law, for example that the panel incorrectly applied the EA2010 and the SC judgement.

Just making sure that you remember all sales are final and no returns will be accepted after 28 days 😁

Could it be possible that JR underestimates NC??

On to Xmas eve CRoom

I've been putting off ironing two full skirts - I've got them lined up here next to me now, but this is too exciting...

From TT

J returns. Takes FW through formalities.
FW - affirms, <affirms>
J - give instructions of microphone, and his note taking.
JR - give full name for tribunal
FW - Fiona Elizabeth Wishart, have been at Fife for 41 years since I completed training
JR - job title, role -
FW - emergency nurse practitioner, describes, triage, discharge, deals with minor injuries
JR - Xmas, eve, takes to photo of CR <JR sound is patchy>
JR - one view of FCR, another view at 661, look familiary
FW - yes
JR what time finish shift on xmas eve
FW - about midnight
JR where did you go after your shift
FW - home
JR - before you went home
FW - to CR
JR - anyone with you?
FW - Dr Beth Upton and another doctor, spelling name

😂blame Bez Mills!

First can't recall of the day

One feels that JR’s biggest impediments to presenting a decent case are her own clients. I think she overestimated them,

JR straight into Xmas Eve CR incident, showing FW a photo of CR
JR what time finish shift on xmas eve
FW - about midnight
JR where did you go after your shift
FW - home JR - before you went home
FW - to CR
JR - anyone with you?
FW - Dr Beth Upton and another doctor, spelling name

JR - how did you come into the CR with them,
FW - don't remember if they were in there or we went in together
JR - what happened next
FW - nothing untoward, coming off shift, exchanging a few pleasantries with my colleagues, then I went home
JR - who else in there

The Supreme Court has laid down that where the Equality Act 20210 refers to women, it means biological women as recorded at birth. This applies to all discrimination cases. We don’t need guidance, this is the law and always was the law.

As a court subject to the law, and the Supreme Court, it is infinitesimally unlikely that they will rule against SP, because to do so would be to go against the Supreme Court.

The TRAs know this, which is why they are screaming blue murder about it.

He’s probably thinking of all the judges and lawyers who go ‘employment tribunals?’ And now here he is, case of a lifetime, massive public interest, outcome important to the whole of Scotland, may even affect the entire UK.

From TT

JR - how did you come into the CR with them,
FW - don't remember if they were in there or we went in together
JR - what happened next
FW - nothing untoward, coming off shift, exchanging a few pleasantries with my colleagues, then I went home
JR - who else in there
FW - me, DU, other dr, and SP.
JR - when did SP come in
FW - I don't recall
JR - where were you standing
FW - near the stool
JR - DU?
FW - near the blue lockers
JR - SP?
FW - near the toilet door
JR - what state of dress was everyone in?

FW - SP in uniform, I don't recall what everyone else was wearing, DU I don't recall but when I've seen her changing before always lower half covered and wearing a bra at least
JR - how to people get changed
FW - come in and get on with business of changing
JR - when you left