NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

My best summary would be:

Sandie's team didn't find out about the evidence that LN will be speaking on (the Benidorn group chat) until late last week.

On Sunday the other person in that chat came forward and that witness and further parts of the chat are what Sandie's team want to add.

A further individual from the Trust has also come forward and is apparently willing to say they weren't happy with Upton using the female changing room. NHS Fife say this should have been included much earlier. Sandie's team say the culture of fear at the hospital prevented that.

All this means that getting the final submissions from both sides is going to be a struggle particularly as they will refer to international law and the decision in this case is likely to be contentious whichever way it goes

So the judge has a number of things to decide on before they can actually get going today.

It’s a business model that would make a Ponzi scheme blush.

Im not getting tin foil hat about this, honest. But its not just fife who need to win this, this'll be going on throughout NHS Scotland, supported by the BMA and throuhout England and Wales.

There may be a lot of external pressure for Fife to appeal if it doesn't go their way.

I gave up a long time ago, just too much of a stress. I don't really print much in my personal life, and I'm lucky enough that my boss is nice enough to let me print out anything I need to at work.

I thought that would be a good idea too. It was terrible, even the tutorial was torture . I thought I was going to have to factory reset my phone to get rid of it.

You do a sterling job and that's awfully tempting but ...

Yes probably involving a piss protest with moobs!

I would also expect an order for a forensic examination of Uptons phone to be made given the dodgyness of his notes

Sandy was suspended and told NOT to talk to anybody else about the case.

It is understandable that these new witnesses might not have come forward in February if they didn't know the case was happening and have only just discovered that Sandy is being accused of being a racist bigot by some of their colleagues. I'd be appalled to discover how she had been treated by Management.

[With all these breaks this morning I'm beginning to wonder whether they are all sat with a copy of the Morning Post, planning their bets for the Tennent's Raceday at Ayr this afternoon].

ah thank you.
Wonderful to hear that there is at least one other person willing to say how unhappy they were in having to share a changing room with a man. It's a shame things will be delayed but it's best that the IT is delayed to ensure full facts are heard.

Fife would be fools to appeal. We've seen that they are fools but the political pressure might just stop them appealing. The BMA might be mad enough to support Upton in an appeal but I'd hope their lawyers would say dont waste your money and certainly some of their membership would not be happy. At a time when they need their funds for strikes I think it would be a reluctant no from them too. I hope Upton's family have the sense to say no too so that would leave the trans community and this is not he best case for them to support.

So many metaphorical popcorn moments!

Who is LN please?

The house is full of cobwebs and resembles Miss Hathaway's residence.
I am developing scurvy due to a diet of scones, pickles, and jam.

They’re a proper coven of witch burners aren’t they? Pretending they have the moral high ground when all they actually are is a vile bunch of bullies with no critical thinking skills. Poor Sandie having to work with these horrors.

<Suddenly looks reeeeeeally busy>

I lost all of 2023 putting together loads of Mumsnet FWR poems. I've done my bit for Mumsnet for the cause.

Anyway, I'd best get on with important stuff. I'm... Erm... just about to start polishing the roof!!

I'm sure after all the public money Fife has already spent on this travesty of a case they can afford to buy her a new flight. Note to JR - next time buy a fully flexible ticket....

Looks like wee Margaret has been out to the print shop. She's handing NC docs.

In a lovely Nile green trouser suit BTW.

I would expect not. What the Claimant's side got was good but not completely 100%. They don't know for sure if digging more would find that, actually, all is well with Upton's notes. So best to take the bird in the hand.

Appeal is good as it creates precedence and is binding.

And all the courts will follow the SC ruling, because it’s the SC and the law.

Well, I haven't seen anyone knocking down Nauti's door in a rush to help. Even with the added inducement of Tunnock's chocolaty goodness.

I didn't make completely clear which direction the bribes would go in.

I got some ironing done during the break.

I have a plane to catch on Thursday. And, ... um, ... all of the Thursdays.

Which witnesses said “nobody else complained”? If JR knew that others had complained (because apparently everyone knew for months!) the is she allowed to get witnesses to say that no one else minded?

Are we getting Dr Croc back???? 🥳
https://x.com/POWLizPanton/status/1949682263999860826