NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

TT's 1st tweets of the day

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1949741148022485369.html

They can put a man on the moon, but they still haven't managed to invent a decent printer

So NC being clear to the judge we will appeal if it doesn’t go our way, so you need to be water tight on how you manage this.

Fife’s failure to disclose at the start has led to this shambles.

For who ever asked, I don’t believe DrU will make a further appearance as a witness as he would be asked about the phone evidence, SP on the other hand is a credible witness and having her take the stand again is a good move.

It was interesting that Naomi said it would almost certainly go to appeal whichever side won.

I'd thought it wouldn't (INAL) if the respondents lost, as I couldn't see NHS Fife doing that - how often does the NHS appeal anything? It'd cost Upton money if he went it alone.

The claimant I can definitely see taking it to appeal, especially with a backer who has very deep pockets. As NC said, this is a case of enormous importance (or words to that effect).

Anyway, what do I know?

Panic station at Fife. Ranks broken. Hopefully staff are finding the strength to swop sides now they realise that doctors and managers can’t tell the difference between male and female

Christ, if this is extended further my family may openly revolt. I've been glued to my phone for days on end and I 'm getting nothing done. I keep telling myself I'll pop online for a quick catch up and then 5 hours go by.

I'm surprised there's only one printer in the whole building.

Maybe Pete needs to multitask and identify as Pete the Printer Technician.

I wonder if not calling a witness with potentially highly material testimony could form the basis of the grounds of an appeal?

If Fife lose I can’t see them appealing. They have had two weeks of awful press coverage which I expect will get worse, questions being asked about the costs to date before the trail started and about the future of the Board. There will be political pressure not to appeal.

@Harassedevictee For who ever asked, I don’t believe DrU will make a further appearance as a witness as he would be asked about the phone evidence,

I wasn't expecting him to. I was just fantasising.

I don't think anyone's even seen him in public recently, nevermind anywhere near the tribunal.

He can be Skills Fluid.

NC suggesting that the losing side in this tribunal is likley to appeal the verdict at least once is very firmly putting the ball in her court. If it is SP that loses then the pain and embarrassment for NHS fife could extend for a long time yet; if SP loses, then NC makes it known that SP will appeal until justice is correctly served. And by that time additional witnesses for SP may well have come forward.

I think you are right

She may be raising that prospect as she knows Fife will back down

I hadn't thought of that, maybe a nudge to allow her witness?

I'd be surprised if Fife appealed a loss - more money, more reputational damage, more MSPs criticising them & pretty pointless in light of the Supreme Court ruling. Although the Scottish Gov are being arses about the SC in a shock move.

So @nauticant given there may be another adjournment and that this may be the first ever MN topic that reaches thread #100, have you been interviewing for your replacement yet?
I take it you may be considering retirement

I remember our old home inkjet with fondness. It was a noisy workhorse, but easy to use and it worked.

My new home printer is a pain in the tits to use, half of the functions are so complicated to use that I can't figure it out, I used to be able to get the scanner function to work, but not recently for some reason. On top of that the ink is so expensive and there's barely any ink in the cartridges so they run out too quickly. There's no support and the online manual is useless. I really hate modern printers.

My office's printer is brilliant, barely ever breaks down (and that's mainly user error!), does it's job with no issues and is easy to use. If it does all go wrong we have an actual phone number(!) we can use to speak to an actual person(!), and if we can't get it sorted on the phone, they'll send someone out.

Well I did quite a few of the other tribunals so have served my time. 😆

Who else is volunteering?

From The Scotsman:
Ms Peggie’s lawyer Naomi Cunningham says it is “essential” the tribunal hears from the two proposed new witnesses.
She says this concerns the “price of speaking up” at NHS Fife, and adds: “It’s been clear there are other employees who might have been ready to give evidence to the tribunal at an earlier stage had they not been frightened off by the treatment of the claimant [Ms Peggie].
“The claimant is under considerable difficulty that she was the only individual among many unhappy about the presence of a man in the changing room but the only one with the courage to speak up.”
She said one of the proposed new witnesses only came forward on Sunday “no doubt after much soul-searching to find the courage to do so”, and said it would be “strikingly unjust” not to allow this witness to come to the tribunal.

This is just the most gripping thing I have seen at an employment tribunal.

Normally they are boring and a bit gritty and soon sorted.

But this - everything from nebulous dog whistles to Benidorm Group Chats. It’s one for the ages. NC could dine out on this the rest of her life.

I am totally absorbed - I’ve always been a TERF I suppose but now I’m just an addict. Send scones 🫶🏻.

Counting down the hours until Foran….

@BouncyCastleNHSSquirrels It will be the printer drivers, check for an update or delete the printer and re install. Essentially turning it off and on again.

Naomi:

Oh yes please. I would really appreciate it.

The Scotsman:
Ms Peggie’s lawyer Naomi Cunningham says “the losing party is likely to appeal at least once, if not more”.
She said: “This is the first case in which the practical working out on the ground of the implications of the For Women Scotland judgement will have to be addressed in relation to single-sex spaces.
“It is of considerable public significance and it needs to be approached with caution and thoroughness.
“It is difficult to imagine how the tribunal can sufficiently absolve the legal arguments on both sides to formulate questions that best allow you [the judge] to arrive at a decision.
“This is not an ordinary case, it is an exceptional case in very many different ways.”

When the times comes I would be happy to take applications from anyone keen to take over. There would be an intensive application process involving bribes of Tunnock's teacakes careful vetting.