NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

@Justabaker okay maybe they could spend less time arguing about the new witnesses and just hear what they have to say?! I don't want any typing injuries!

JR: whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge whinge

Oh fuck off JR, it is you who has consistently wasted time.

Sounds like JR knows these witnesses will lose her the case and is desperate for it not to be included.

From the biography in some of Sir Pterry's books:
"He started work as a journalist one day in 1965 and saw his first corpse three hours later, work experience meaning something in those days."

Respondents happy to be creative.

Hahahaaaaa they've certainly been 'creative' with the truth since this whole sorry mess started

JR another long delay. Makes it more difficult for Tribunal, prejudices both sides, impacts quality of justice. We say don't let momentum drop now, keep momentum going. Tribunal time is an important public resource and finding new dates, for new sitting time will waste more of that precious resource. It creates 3 difficult consequences for everyone; unexpected events, such as in this sitting, has affected Panel members could affect barrister etc, impact of prolonged uncertainty for all parties, and 3rd that the longer matters are left unresolved

The judge might be swayed by this, even if JR caused a lot of the delays..

I’m failing miserably at keeping up to date - I know different other places to read updates have been mentioned, without derailing and using to much of the thread, is there one source that is considered best? The herald? Scotsman?

he ongoing media circus may further impact panel, witnesses and advocates. We are happy to be creative to get subs done this week. Nothing further.
J - not yet seen the productions, have you seen the email J
R - not yet, email has been forwarded to me
J - how long do you need

NC picking up on JRs refusal of NHS Fife to accept their dealing with the previous bits was in a shambolic manner

Something for observers to comment on later; does JR sound as if she is panicking?

I suspect that Sandie wasn't expecting a series of employees who don't work with her to confidently state that they have heard she is a racist homophobe.

I hope the Panel see through this.

JR - I need 15 minutes, but not now
J - before witnesses?
JR - I should see before calling witnesses
NC - should I wait or do you want to hear now
J - now please on these points NC - the difficulties have been in the manner that which Rs have conducted case

From TT
JR cont another long delay. Makes it more difficult for Tribunal, prejudices both sides, impacts quality of justice. We say don't let momentum drop now, keep momentum going. Tribunal time is an important public resource and finding new dates, for new sitting time will waste more of that precious resource. It creates 3 difficult consequences for everyone; unexpected events, such as in this sitting, has affected Panel members could affect barrister etc, impact of prolonged uncertainty for all parties, and 3rd that the longer matters are left unresolved

Fifer : haud on the noo. Precious resource? The same ye were pishin doon the nettle patch on Friday goin on aboot fuck kens what tae be quite honest. Seemed like ye were runnin the clock doon tae me.

the ongoing media circus may further impact panel, witnesses and advocates. We are happy to be creative to get subs done this week. Nothing further.

J - not yet seen the productions, have you seen the email
JR - not yet, email has been forwarded to me
J - how long do you need

Fifer : Big Sond needs tae keep his Gowf Group Chat updated. If he's no teein aff, Big Tam will hae his seat in the buggy and that he could not abide.

NC We have known there have been many objectors to Men in the CR, but they are too fearful to give evidence.

Quite.
All NHS staff and many professions/ jobs need them, but let’s be honest soon as that check is done it’s out of date. And it’s not some magic pass! I’m an RGN I’m just imagining rocking up to the mortuary or paediatrics, please let me in I’ve got my DBS

NC - JR says that we knew about other objector a long time ago, we knew about many objectors long ago, but the price of objecting was obvious, it is important that the Tribunal hear from this witness. R's treatment of C is the most obvious sign of how any other wits would be treated

JR has a bloody cheek.

The delays were due to them withholding evidence. She also has made disgraceful unfounded un evidenced accusations of racism and homophobia which Sandie should be entitled to defend herself against.

She also allowed the witness to witter on with nonsense about chromosomes.

This shitshow is all down to her and NHS Fife.

NC - C is the only one who came forward. JR says C has known about LN since early July. We did not see material from group chat until last week. And other participant to that 2 way chat, is the only other person who can give evidence about that is our other witness. It would be

Benidorm chat witness only came forward yesterday.

I really what to hear what they have to say.

Sad Times to me is absolutely the mournful sound of Portishead.

sorry if I have missed this but does it seem reading between the lines NC may have applied for strike out of the response but not been successful?

This is a pantomime

meantime god knows when Sandie will get her outcome

the process is the punishment right enough

If there were other objectors who spoke to any of the management witnesses saying it was only Sandie that's massive.

But anyone coming forward saying they were uncomfortable and there was a climate of fear is massive.

Blimey never a quiet day in this case.

Looks like JR put her foot right in it by calling Lindsay in the first place. She can't really argue hearing only her side and not the other person involved in the chat. Go Naomi !

I think it was in his time as a press officer for an electricity generating board that he had experience of massive organisational blunders and cover-ups, so much of this might be familiar to him.

It also suggests that as long as a man isn't a sex offender it's OK for him to be in the F CR. It isn't. I don't want to change in front of men however 'safe' they are. Its a F CR not a mixed CR.