NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

I know!

if your own barrister is the one introducing the idea that you’ve lied & tampered with evidence while trying to goad an expert into giving a similar opinion (to get their report struck out) you know you’re in trouble!

Sad times.

I don’t think he will.

He’s been getting away with murder at work, and because of that Teflon, he’s been allowed to get away with it, and still be protected as the victim.

I think he’ll get away with it Scott free, personally.

I had to keep reminding myself that JR wasn't actually cross-examining the Fife witnesses 😂

@Igneococcus I love SK! I use so
many of her recipes regularly. Her Apple Sharlotka cake is amazing and I recently discovered her brown butter rice crispie bars, which are DIVINE:

smittenkitchen.com/salted-brown-butter-crispy-treats-2/

I'm off on my holidays but trying to keep up

#SandTimes

Isn't anybody going to nab the Username "SadTimes"?!

I see what you did there. 😆

I was tempted by “BuptonsBigSocks” admittedly.

If you follow her recipe for Apfelstrudel it will be indistinguishable from my mum's.I love all her babka type recipes too, and the recipe (or more an assembly instruction) for burrata with cherries and pistachios is fab, had it twice for lunch last week.
Her Strawberry Graham Icebox cake is amazing. "best thing about strawberry season" according to dp.

Just while we're waiting for kick-off this morning, I came across a blog over the weekend. It was about some training seminar in the NHS:

Trans History (and why it matters to you) – training for NHS staff

Learn all about how interesting women were really men and how trans women are even more interestinger!

https://the-lies-they-tell.org/2025/07/26/trans-history-and-why-it-matters-to-you-training-for-nhs-staff/

Introduction

The session was organised by Melanie Holloway, Diversity, Inclusion & Participation Manager, at NHS England (soon to be defunct). She is also Chair of the National LGBTQIA+ Staff Network. NHS England has achieved ‘Gold Champion’ status from the LGBT Foundation training programme (see here).

Holloway was emotional, more than 600 NHS staff had signed up to the session with about half watching live a trans awareness session called ‘Trans History (and why it matters)’. After the session the video was circulated to everyone who had signed up and is now posted on YouTube for posterity, though I note not through an official NHS channel. It had also been the busiest LGBT+ History Month of Holloway’s career so far, so she was pumped about that too.
.

The blog then goes on to give examples of what was included in this session starting with:

The talk

What is transness?

Davison’s preferred term to discuss all things trans was the nebulous-sounding ‘transness’. Really this was so he could go ‘ooh, that’s a bit trans’ about everything. Material reality wasn’t really a thing, Davison told us, quietly introducing the concept of ‘cisness’ to the assembled horde of NHS workers, using the cryptic example of ‘some people having a much more complicated relationship with their bodies’.
.

Then, at the end, she makes this point:

Reflection

This webinar would have been widely touted by senior management teams across NHS Trusts at the behest of the LGBT+ network system. Six hundred people is a sizeable number. I suspect the core audience was ancillary rather than clinical, fancying an hour off work whilst at work, but clearly both make up the cohort of healthcare professionals. Worrying. As for Davison’s historical illiteracy …
.

I think this gives a bit more context to those of us who know nothing of the internal workings of the NHS around gender identity.

For anyone who feels they can stomach it. The youtube video of the session is here:

I listened to this first thing today and the line which struck me was that GI theory in the extreme form “sets women’s rights to zero” in order to facilitate the wishes of a male to enter female spaces.

NC said the panel for case at the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre had assumed that this “extreme” form of GI theory was a rare example and she thought they’d not understood how prevalent it actually is.

NC said that unfortunately that Tribunal wasnt in a position to rule on the acceptableness of that form of GI so nothing came out of that judgment on that. But she said it was very close.

Im wondering whether NC will try to get that ruled on as part of SP’s case?

Argh! I'm going to miss most of today. My phone didn't charge and I've been roped into something that ABSOLUTELY could wait until the tribunal is over but the people involved insist it must be today. Grrrrrrrrrrr.

At least I can look forward to a glass of wine and probably 2 more full threads to read before bed tonight.

Many things have changed beyond recognition, but the variety of baking has to be seen to be believed!

Also desperately waiting for payday so I can sign up to Foran.

Might set up a go fund me called HELP THIS DISORGANISED ADULT HUMAN FEMALE KEEP UP WITH THE SP V FIFE EMPLOYMENT TRIBUNAL.

Username lols!

You can have it back when I'm finished with it!

Talking about scones:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/72452b11-2d67-4e13-9e90-adbb3e061395?shareToken=6002bdcc30eea5ac75d8af704fc5cb4c

Aarrgh! That's not a scone, it's a Welsh cake.

Which traditionally has dried fruit in it.

But if you go to the Bakestones stall in Cardiff market that makes Welsh cakes before your very eyes, you can get ones with chocolate chips, jam, lemon, coconut, Nutella... There's a website, too.

And when (and where) I grew up, scones have dried fruit in. That's the way I like them.

Sorry, spent the weekend on the road, in a field, then back in the road and am just catching up.

OOH - I'm now tempted to give one a try - google tells me they love a south facing window. I live in an old terrace cottage, south facing to front, north to back. The front south windows are death to all plants as it gets too hot, further in the room is quite dark despite the south facing window, and plants hate the lack of light. The north facing kitchen window seems to get plenty of natural but not direct light and I have had surprising success with orchids there, they just keep flowering which is bizarre given my lack of green fingers. Windowsill herbs are happy too. But I shall now try a sarracenia in the front window.

Message from Faye last night:
FayeRC · 25/07/2025 23:00
oooh thank you! I was wondering where the new flow to the crowdfunder was coming from but first thought it was from X as I do more campaigning there. I've just looked at the comments and most are from MN now. Just wanted to say a huge thank you

Keep it coming - search for Faye Russell-Caldicott on crowdjustice.com.

And Sex Matters can be donated to at Donate to Sex Matters - Sex Matters

Tribunal Tweets can be donated to at...oops I haven't got their details, somebody posted them on the last thread, could you do the same again, please - I promise I'll save them next time!

These are the ways we are showing our appreciation to the women who are fighting these cases, and to Nauticant for the job she didn't realise she was signing up to waaaaay back around Thread #2

If you haven't got any spare money to donate, don't worry, the donations carry the appreciation and good wishes of all of us to Faye, Sandie, Naomi, Margaret, Tribunal Tweets people etc etc.

I think they did Nebulous because I think NC got a section of KS’s foot-in-mouth email trail because the dear doctor attached it to his GMC email (with the caveat that I have been doing nothing but reading these threads/reading TT/listening to MF for so long it’s entirely possible that I dreamt that).

A huge thank you from me too!!!

As well as my dad, I also hear my small, Fife town, cousins in what you write. I moved away, got an education and am considered posh now in my family and have cemented this by moving back to Fife but to the 'posh place' not my home town! Your translations @BezMillshave really been making me laugh.

Good morning! I’m trying to keep up from a galaxy far far away. I’ve enjoyed hearing more about your interests and passions. Fwiw
Scones - love them, plain, cream first, then jam (cream won’t spread on jam, and if the jams I. The middle I don’t taste it properly. Just NO to any additive beyond raisins in a scone. Maybe I should give savoury a go)
Knitting - yes , v e. r. y. slowly. Never tried crochet
Gardening - badly
preserves - I like a fermented veg, the family laughed at me and wrinkled their noses but all that has changed since discovering Korean food so am going to try the courgette recipe posted above, as requested by teenager. DM makes our jam and marmalade.
Reading - I keep meaning to try Terry Pratchett. Would welcome recommendations, particularly anything that would work on audible as a first for 11 yr old (we have a long car journey soon)
May the force be with SP, NC and MG today!

https://www.mckeesproduce.com/product-category/bakery/scones-pancakes/

Sadly for you, the mint aero ones are currently out of stock...