NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

No reason at all!

You sure?

DS2 (27) changed jobs 2 years ago. Among other things he was asked to disclose all his social media accounts and told that these would be reviewed. Any accounts found to have been subsequently controlled and not disclosed would be gross misconduct, immediate dismissal. He's always been very restrained on social media so not a problem for him. Among his peers, this is common for anyone looking to work in the private sector.

IIJM who thinks this a horrifying and unpleasant trend? My instinctive reaction would be FOTTFSOFATFOSM!

He behaves like an utter lunatic ….appalling that he managed to be selected as a police officer.

I'm all caught up with the thread now but can see I didn't miss much with the last witness.

There was absolutely no point in bringing up DSDs because nobody including Upton has stated that they have a DSD. Upton is a self professed, proud-of-themselves transwoman.

Glad I didn't miss anything spectacular, got about 4lbs of blackberries, they're just stewing now, then I'll freeze half for another crumble or pie later on.

There were still loads ripening, so will brave the brambles again later in the week.

I've actually bought a paper map of my town and been circling areas with prolific areas of brambles and written dates from previous years so I can track ripening patterns.

The brambles taking over my beautiful rose hedge are slackers and the berries are not worth picking.

.. so you'll have missed the post about custard being a non-Newtonian fluid because its viscosity depends on being stirred - every day a school day on here!
I'm sure your crumble and custard will taste lovely anyway😄

I picked my blackcurrant bushes a couple of days ago and managed to get a haul of just under 2kg. After picking out all the leaves, stalks and insects, I made jam, sorbet and have spent today inventing a new cocktail (I'm sure it's probably already a thing but anyway) which I have named a Blackcurrant Collins.

Christ!! DU marking his own homework & then some!!

Especially as NC's response to a question about carrying on and starting the x exam or leaving it until Tuesday was (per TT):

J Let me ask again about breaks? Now or start cross but not finish it. Remind me.
NC My position hasnt changed and hardened as a lot of info has come out in chief. Which I can think about better later
JR I'd like to do at least half

If that doesn't have MC spending the next few days in a cold sweat she really hasn't understood the situation.

From 12 Feb BU evidence:

NC Y'day went through chronology. 24/12 CR incident told Pitt
DU Also on 25/12 cos midnight
NC Also at that time you made note on phone in carpark
DU Early xmas day
NC 3am you sent email to KS copy Sr P. Also around then sent an email to BMA. Then BMA on 29 and phone call. 3 Jan sent draft FC to BMA
NC Sorry. Confused. Email from DU to BMA re thanking for advice and going forward to drafting FC

At the time, the "DU Also on 25/12 cos midnight" looked like DU being arsey. In retrospect, he may have been very conscious of accounting for Christmas day edits on his Keep Notes app?

From 13 Feb BU evidence:

NC you are happy it's a fair report by KS c what she learned from you in mtg.
DU She said I have notes of resus incident which I don't. I haven't keep a log of all occasions - not the resus - but log of the other incidents. Reasonably accurate re what I would have shown KS
NC Did you show KS phone notes?
DU Can't recall exactly what I said. May have mentioned/shown re phone notes.
NC [reads] KS has info. And notes. And Beth has notes.
Re what you showed KS. Did you show KS your resus notes on phone.
DU Don't remember. KS may be mistaken. Have to ask her.
NC email KS to ED 30/12. Foreshadows IX interview. [reads c SP v diff to work with and Beth kept log]
DU KS understanding but not true cos I don't have note re resus
NC You told KS about it though. [turns to DU
NC contemporaneous notes on phone] reads dates
DU I understand. That is what contemporaneous means.
NC Last wrote note on 28/12
NC notes still on your phone. Backed up? May be q imps you don't delete them.
DU Not intending to.

Here he seems to be know NC is onto him and is trying valiantly to cover his tracks. But "DU I understand. That is what contemporaneous means." just slipped out!

Later session 13/02:

NC You had already provided BMA 2 days before mtg with B&H policy and EDI policy. On blink?
DU Not if not at work. Wife may have helped.They are better at this than I am

I hope very much that he doesn't try to blame his wife for the 'tech problems'. Or that if he does, I hope she sees it as grounds for divorce.

I got an aggressive risk marker put on my NHS file the other year...

For shouting do not touch me at the male member of staff going to grab me.

I did ask them was I just supposed to be quiet and put a smile on my face whilst their staff member abused me?

Funnily enough they refused to answer!

christmas eve:
https://archive.is/xkSxy#selection-1601.1-1703.106:~:text=NC%20%2D%20can%20you%20described,discussing%20evidence%20with%20anyone

NC - can you describe the tone of that convo
SP - we were just talking normally, no raised voices, and I felt it was just a convo where we disagreed

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm still half way through the last thread. Trying to watch live, follow along here and do actual work is proving beyond my capabilities!

After CE's excellent work today it made me think, has JR's junior (I assume that's what she is) played any active role in this tribunal? Or is that not really the done thing?

@Largesso
Himpathy
Not a concept I have encountered before, but my God, do I recognise it!

This case has confirmed for me a perception that I already had; that, for many transwomen, being a woman is a performative action for them. When they go into the women's changing room, they don't go in to get changed, they go in to assert their femininity. They're like foxes pissing on a tree to mark their territory. "This place is mine" they say.

If they went into the changing room and there was nobody there, they'd be disappointed, because they want to be witnessed "being a woman". And they're looking for nods of approval, confirming how well they're doing. Anyone who doesn't play along, "being a woman" with them, is an enemy.

Women don't go around all day thinking about what a great woman they're being. They just get on with life.

The extreme example is Dylan Mulvaney, whose workout videos were grotesque caricatures of a weirdo's idea of what being a woman means

For anyone who needs a “heresy” souvenir, Jess De Wahls is having a wee sale:

www.jessdewahls.com/bso-embroidered-patches/heretic

If Upton managed to go through medical school and not realise he should get a referral for not going through a normal male puberty for his undiagnosed DSD. He really wasn’t paying attention.

Trying to keep up, again.

Gosh, what a day! I thought the IT people would be boring.
Do we get a long weekend now to recharge our batteries?

Sandie didn't think much of the exchange with Upton & just carried on with the rest of her shift. She didn't know the furore that was going on with the weeping & emailing & condemnation of her by KS & others. It must only have been when she was next on shift that she discovered that Upton had lied made a complaint about her.

It's a play on her surname.

His male pattern baldness & luxuriant ginger beard indicate that he did go through normal male puberty.

Oh! That makes sense, I couldn't understand it at all. I thought he was calling her a pig or something. How pathetic.

The claim is that it was a deliberate set-up as a cynical money-making ploy on NC's part, all the while claiming plausible deniability that she's doing any such thing. The ugly phrase you're referring to I would interpret as making money on the sly - in other words, this account is suggesting that 'Sex Matters' is a money-making scam.

The SEEN account also refers to 'Sex Matters' as an anti-trans hate group. It's a bloody human rights organisation, focusing on the interests of women. One would think women are not actually 'real' humans, or don't have rights. Oh, wait ...

Never has IT and metadata been so engaging 😄

With my apologies to the boffins out there.

Yes. 'Clever' double meaning with 'bacon' as also slang for money. Spiteful or what?