NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

How many others wish they’d done that?!

That's awful. So they didn't even attempt to take her to the toilet?

I meant to make raspberry jam yesterday. But instead put the raspberries into my prosecco glass.

Hope I am still welcome on the thread.

thank you!

As someone who works in Medicine Of The Elderly, it really, really shouldn’t be (and to be fair isn’t on my ward).
If somebody’s normally continent, it’s actively doing them harm - it’s bad for the skin, bad for the person’s dignity and autonomy, bad for mobility (peeing encourages people to get up to walk to the toilet), new incontinence should be being investigated anyway, and it actually has a negative effect on ongoing continence as people loose bladder tone.

It is a major bug bear of mine- if someone can walk, they should be walking to the toilet, or at least transferring to a commode to be wheeled to the toilet.

If you have a fig tree; this is amazing jam

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/food/recipes/a535282/spiced-plum-and-fig-jam/

@NebulousSupportPostcard glancing at that link, I’m no longer surprised at the NHS struggling. All the time that must be wasted creating and reading and discussing those endless useless reports. Those who are skilled at writing the reports will get promoted over those skilled at providing patient care.

Amongst pages of nothing much, it includes a full page photo of Walt Disney and the quote "The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing".
https://www.nhsfife.org/media/iail0oqv/clinical-governance-committee-papers-20250307.pdf

There's a very good youtube video explaining all the different books and suggests some different starting points and order to read (at around the 39 minute mark).

Some suggestions might be to start with Mort, which would lead into the "Death" series (Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather etc)

Or maybe Guards! Guards!, which would lead into the "Watch" series.

It may also be a good idea to start with one of the later books or one of the standalone books.

For example, Small Gods is very much a standalone book but, I think, gives a very good introduction to the world.

Also, Jingo (very much part of the Watch series) might be a good place to start or also Moving Pictures.

I'm actually surprised he's got away with not appearing at either court case.

But somebody must be questioning things from the board level, everyone answers to somebody in this world.

Yy to Austen, Pratchett, Christie & Wodehouse among others, knitting, crochet, visible mending, darning and thinking about sewing, making jams and chutneys, growing stuff (mainly herbs these days). I love the sound of the pp with a witchy corner in her kitchen full of home-made tinctures and experimental concoctions - one for the future.

Oh my! That is a mighty fine collection!

Anyone else have share tokens for Micheal Foran’s Substack? I recommend signing up - his insight is very compelling and makes sense of tricky evidence.

I have a few interested parties I can send your way as my tokens have gone.

I recently signed up and can maybe help. How do I find the tokens for sharing?

You may have got an email after your initial sign up emails saying here are some tokens to share - you click the link and can put in emails to forward to others. Mine went to junk so maybe check there?

I can't help but feel that NHSF are guilty of over egging the pudding.

The updating of notes to add SP's name to previous incidents. Given that DU is known to exaggerate, did the alleged incidents even actually occur? Was SP involved (if they did occur) or was her name attached as it fitted the narrative?

Did DU get a discreet nudge from above to 'beef up' his notes?

Generally when organisations get themselves in a mess I assume cock up rather than conspiracy. In this case I think it was a conspiracy to cover up a cock up.

And I'll add another 'C', cowardice.

They cocked up in allowing/encouraging DU to use a female changing room. They lacked the organisational courage to say 'we made a mistake'. Individually they were frightened of DU, of his emotional reactions to any slight (real or imagined), of his ability to cause trouble.

So they doubled down on the cock up. Which, of course, just makes the cock up worse.

I'm just packing. I'll be at yours and moving into your spare room shortly. I will expect toast with home made jams every morning with a nice cup of tea.

What do you mean that doesn't work for you?

Resistance is futile.

Why have 1 copy of each book when you can have 3?

So they doubled down on the cock up.

That has given me a mental image that is wholly inappropriate for a Sunday morning.

<gets brain bleach out from the cupboard under the sink>

The absence of Jamie Doyle (and his refusal to attend) will work in Sandie’s favour.

I fully expect NC (or maybe CE) to comment “Well we should be asking this of Mr Doyle, but we can’t” multiple times this week.

DH and child are dealing with frail inlaws on the other side of the country, so I’ll spend the morning baking/salad making with my bookclub audiobook on (I keep getting distracted by this thread, so I need to crack on).

Thanks. Now I can't unsee it. [shudder]

Boiledbeetle · Today 08:27

pollyglot · Today 04:42
Guava jelly - either nectar or ambrosia...never can remember which.

I'm just packing. I'll be at yours and moving into your spare room shortly. I will expect toast with home made jams every morning with a nice cup of tea.
What do you mean that doesn't work for you?
Resistance is futile.

You're absolutely welcome, BB.

Is it wholemeal or white you'll be wanting?
Scones, jam and cream for elevenses?

Give me a bell from the airport. x

Exactly! Having 3 of each makes much more sense.

White bread please (and if it's home made even better). I can manage a multi grain seeded type loaf, but a definite no to the wholemeal.

Scones.....yes please. Jam then cream obviously the correct order.

The plane from deepest darkest Peru leaves in half an hour.

I'll ring you when I've made it past customs your end.

Kisses.

😘

I really feel for Sandie, it becomes more apparent how alone she must have felt, thank goodness for Neale Harvey connecting her with the right people. The visible change in Sandie in photographs shows the impact of all the support.

No. The nurse stayed sitting down, checked the iPad and said she has a pad.