NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I just can't believe JR is being such an absolute fucking arse

JR sounds hostile straight out of the gate. She doesn't use NC's style of leading. Straight out with accusations.

She could usefully undertake a facilitated reflective discussion on how to perform kindness on camera.

That’s what I just said 😂

I’m getting Dallas vibes!

JR - para 87, first line, appears to trib in position in cancelling meeting on basis ????
JB - yes
JR - there was a meeting with DU and the C cancelled it
JB - yes JR - don't mention in your report
JB - no
JR - why helpful to C case?
JB - just looked at info produced

JR trying to suggest that he only found what he was looking for, or told to look for, so not reliably forensic enough?

I admire what seems to be his style of "I'm just looking at what's there, that's what is there"

Not his fault she doesn't like it! 😂

Retrain as stenographers and/or Actual Forensic Guys?

Wait has CE finished?

JR - were you instructions to show DU lying?
CE - are you alleging prof misconduct
JR - were you instructed to undermine the report, if implied prof misconduct withdrawn
JR - instructed to show lies by DU?
CE - astonished, either prof rep of claimant instructing to lie, or tha

I love this IT expert guy

Surely this dishonesty by Dr Upton merits a GMC referral all of its own

From TT

JR - 1643, your report, you say told DU produced notes on his phone, were you told to use thoe pronouns?

Fifer : sucks teeth. Why waste Speccie Loddie's time with questions about the he-hims and she-hers sake min.

"If you dinnae have The Law, nor The Facts, hammer The Pronouns"

JB - no, use she throughout
JR - not told about patient safety? SORRY MISSED
JR - you say at outset, you were asked to examine phone re note creation date
JB - y
JR - fair to say you were told to undermine DU account of patient care allegation

Fifer : the strategy becomes clear. Undermine Speccie Loddie's instructions, because sure as eggs, he's got Forensic Backgroon gubbed a hunder tae null on Forensics n Computers ken.

JB - no I was asked
J - hang on
JR - you weren't just asked look at notes, you were given specific part of notes. what were you told to do
JB - recover notes re patient care allegation
JR - why
JB - not told, just to do it
JR - 1089 - tribs note 30th may 2025, 1118

JR - para 87, first line, appears to trib in position in cancelling meeting on basis ????
JB - yes
JR - there was a meeting with DU and the C cancelled it
JB - yes
JR - don't mention in your report
JB - no
JR - why helpful to C case?
JB - just looked at info produced
JR - were you instructions to show DU lying?

CE - are you alleging prof misconduct

JR - were you instructed to undermine the report, if implied prof misconduct withdrawn
JR - instructed to show lies by DU?

CE - astonished, either prof rep of claimant instructing to lie, or that

Fifer : When you're finished hammering The Pronouns, why not try suggesting that an IT guy wi his fuckin INITIALS AND COMPUTERS for a company name, is a massive liar. Loddie couldn't lie tae save his specs.

JB: I will be paid as you will be paid as well.

JR inferring the the expert has been bribed?

Golden. The actual functioning adults are in the expert witness box now.

Yes, that appears to be what is being said. This alone is devastating for Upton and Fife in my view.

👍

I can't see Jim's face properly but the baffled disbelief is radiating off him.

JR being so incredibly disrespectful.

CE - an expert would accept such
JR - it is about MISSED and I apologise if thats implied
J - his skilled evidence is that it's impossible, thats what the report and evidence says, rest is discussion.
JR - you were paid for report, not pro bono
JB - yes, i will be paid as you will

oooh cheeky, JB!

What is JR playing at???

"You were paid for report, not pro bono."

"Yes, I will be paid, as you will be."

Haha. He's not taking any of her shite!

Given how cross JR got about NC allegedly impugning her reputation, she's a massive hypocrite here.

When all you've got it ad hominens you know its going badly for you

This from TT:

“JR - you say at outset, you were asked to examine phone re note creation date
JB - y
JR - fair to say you were told to undermine DU account of patient care allegation
JB - no I was asked
J - hang on
JR - you weren't just asked look at notes, you were given specific part of notes. what were you told to do
JB - recover notes re patient care allegation
JR - why
JB - not told, just to do it
JR - 1089 - tribs note 30th may 2025, 1118”

JR is trying to insinuate that the instructions to this forensic expert were leading. He’s confirmed they weren’t, he wasn’t told why he was asked to look at specific notes, just to recover them.

This can also be easily cleared up with a copy of instructions from SP’s team to expert, along with any discussions recorded.

I don’t think JR is going to put much of a dent in this expert’s credibility, as their own ‘expert’ can’t replicate of given any explanations for the discrepancies.

I think the judge and panel think they've hit the jackpot with this case. Actual bad guys; a public that cares about the outcome; real drama in the hearing room; everything they went into law and panel membership to get. I suspect this tribunal is the kind that makes everything worthwhile. The kind you tell your grandchildren about.