Katy Montgomerie

[niadainud]

Just wondering what people think about her. I was sent a link by someone, and I do occasionally try to watch the views of pro-trans people for "balance", but I really struggled with this one.

I find her excessively pleased with herself, incoherent, ageist and of course prone to flinging around insults such as "TERF", "transphone" and "bigot" every few minutes.

I'm not quite sure what gives her the confidence to "diss" people like Helen Joyce, Richard Dawkins et al, as if they're idiots and she is some sort of intellectual giant.

She says things like this: "The UK's Supreme Court ruled on "biological sex", but they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. The "Gender Critical" position on biology is just factually wrong. Finally hundreds of experts in the field come together to call out all this anti-science rubbish"

Other than being trans herself, does she have any justifiable claim to the superior knowledge she purports to have?

I would be quite alarmed by a woman - any woman - talking being blamed for 'making' someone feel violent.

Exactly the kind of disgusting misogyny we are fighting against.

People are only smug if you disagree with them.

What an odd claim - I agree with many people who are extremely smug, so you're wrong there!

I find it depressing that grown adults openly admit that tone of voice, or delivery, or presentation, affects whether they believe something to be factually true or not. But then you see who is voted into power and clearly it works.

KF is KiwiFarms - a particularly caustic hate/harrassment site that grew out of 8chan (the godawful nazi-infested child-abuse hosting cesspit where the bonkers QAnon conspiracy loons first gained traction) in 2013.

Its user base generally focus their targeted stalking/doxxing and abuse campaigns toward trans, non-binary and neurodiverse people online and have amassed a horrifying death toll as a result of their (often successful) attempts to drive vulnerable people to suicide. Users openly compete toward this goal and ghoulishly celebrate upon receipt of confirmation.

The site is banned in the UK and a number of other countries due to its complete lack of redeeming features - it really is just a staging ground for systematic abuse for a membership who grew out of one of the most infamous and disgustingly evil child porn hosting forums on the internet.

From the way you post here and your display of at least some willingness to treat Katy Montgomerie like a human being, you seem like a person with an open mind who is still capable of compassion and empathy. I do not think Kiwi Farms will bring anything positive to your life, and I am horrified (though sadly not surprised) to see it being recommended by another poster here.

I cannot stress this enough - KF is a full mask-off eugenicist neo-nazi hate site that is so bad that it is outright banned in the UK

Awwww are you upset at them? I mean, you could say Reddit was a hate filled, porn obsessed site full of misogynistic arseholes who ban people who have differing views but if people want to go on there it’s up to them. And I think you’ll find the farmers hate everyone equally. Transpeople are not a special interest for them. From what I’ve seen, their specialty seems to be bringing to light all the secrets people want to keep hidden…. Looking at you Brianna Wu. The way I see it, don’t be a dick and you won’t get called out on it.

@niadainud As you have no doubt guessed from the response above, KF is very popular with Gamergaters who were dogwhistling their way through their misogynistic gatekeeping tantrums over women and minorities daring to exist in the videogames industry a decade ago.

Oh no love, you’re confused. That’s Reddit. Kiwi farms is a cesspit, but at least they allow people to have opposing views. And as fas as I know… KF don’t have whole forums dedicated to porn.

To be fair, they have a whole section on there discussing mumsnet I’ve heard. They seem to like us.

Sorry, you're going to have to translate that or at least provide a glossary.

In response to @waitwhat23 who seems to have since deleted an unpleasant personal attack and asked me if I am a KF user:

I think I'd rather slowly gnaw my own arm off.

OP asked what Kiwi Farms was, so I told them.

I remain disappointed, though sadly not all that surprised, to see even a single poster on this board recommending the suicide-baiting eugenicist harassment nexus to others - and even doubling down to defend it, despite it still being banned by the UK for being so actively dangerous.

Awww noooo! You’re disappointed?? How will we go on?

Name one single poster that has recommended that board.

I'm not deleting posts. Women on here as a rule don't report posts as it's a great way for everyone else to see the posts. It also means that any claims such as the ones Butterfly is making about my posts can be countered.

I made no personal attack against Butterfly.

I did not ask Butterfly if Butterfly is a Kiwi Farms user.

I have kept the screenshot of my last post as proof as stated in that post.

A huge subset of the online gaming community had a multi-year long screaming tantrum about a decade ago over the videogames industry pivoting toward considering women and minorities to be full human beings deserving of respect and inclusion in media and in-game content.

They employed the infamous dog-whistle 'it's about ethics in videogame journalism' as part of their rhetoric, but their actions spoke much louder than their words - harrassing and doxing multiple influential women working in the industry who dared to talk about the godawful prevailing attitudes.

You can trace the direct lineage of Musk-style techbro fascism and the rise of the 'alt-right' that shoed Trump into power the first time from it.

Brianna Wu was one of the main targets of the Gamergate abuse campaigns alongside Anita Sarkeesian. Brianna is not exactly a person I would describe as having covered herself in glory in the years since, especially recently, but that does not excuse the concerted years-long harassment campaigns that targeted her a decade ago.

Yet you don't even consider women as human beings deserving of our sex based rights and spaces, yourself. So you are not one to talk about people not considering women to be full human beings deserving of respect or rights. That's right up your alley.

Montgomery is just another male person who seems to be convinced that they pass when they really don't. I can only assume it is because a group of people tell Montgomery that they pass.

It is like the twitter profile who tried to leverage taking their niece to the toilets as some kind of reason that they could not abide by the Supreme Court judgement. They also had a habit of posting images of JK Rowling on their profile as some kind of 'passing' gotcha, ie. when someone said that they could 'always tell' they posted a picture of JK Rowling up as if it was a clever gotcha but it was really just another misogynistic action. That person also seems to think they pass, but when you look at their photos, they don't even pass in photos.

There seems to be a group of these male people who fully believe they pass because they don't understand that female people are not about to tell them otherwise in person. Certainly not while those male people are in the female single sex provisions with them in any case. Those male people simply don't understand female reactions at all.

Anyway, I had no idea Kiwi Farms think Colin/Katy's a plonker.

His twitter feed convinced me.

No idea why our resident flutter by is suddenly so concerned about Col, either.

I wasn't aware that gender critical feminism was quite so dedicated toward policing other people's appearance and presentation and then having a tantrum when they reciprocate using your own tactics against you, but it definitely seems to be praxis for you.

Has there been another schism? If there's a new group chat, I haven't seen the contents of it yet so I'm a few weeks out of date.

I think I prefer the versions of feminism that revolve around mutual support and campaigning to end prejudice and abuse for all women, rather than perpetuating it. I don't think you're likely to find much of that on Kiwi Farms or similar sites though.

We don't police "appearance" or "presentation". Just male skeletal systems. Nothing at all to do with 'appearance' or 'presentation'. I also note you didn't answer who on here recommended KF. You don't seem to like answering questions.

Oh so you DO support women standing up for their sex based rights and their campaign to remove men from their spaces! I bet you even condemn those “kill a terf” posts on Reddit don’t you?

I knew you were a GC mole. I was a bit confused as you played being a TRA so well but who knew! I should have known you were just taking the TRA talking points and exaggerating them whilst pretending to be a TRA to show how batshit they were. You were one of us all along! Well played!

Oh... so you think that someone posting a picture of JK Rowling when someone talks about being able to correct sex someone is a clever gotcha, do you?

Really?

I think you will find that only misogynists do that. There is no clever reason to do it.

But of course, you have jumped to the conclusion that we are policing how people look. Again, that is projection of misogyny there.

No, we point out that the people who declare that they 'pass' have male body cues that are very clearly identifiable which is why male people should never have been told by any person that they should feel free to use the female toilets.

No one is 'policing' their appearance. They are policing male people accessing female single sex spaces. You have been told this on MN for years now, but maybe you forgot in your rush to defend a misogynist who uses women as some kind of sick gotcha.

Pointing out that a male person has male body cues that are easily identifiable is just pointing out reality that a person is a male person.

Why should any feminist support a male person to access female single sex spaces? Whether it is based on 'passing' or not? I think you have again shown just how misogynistic activism that prioritising male people accessing female single sex spaces really is.

Well done.

This is it exactly.

And a male person who posts an image of a woman as a gotcha when others talk about whether they can correctly sex someone is a misogynist or a narc. I cannot think of any other reason for them doing such a thing.

I don't think anyone on MN FWR cares about policing appearance. They do however look at male body cues and correctly identify a male person. Even the ones who brag about 'passing' when they don't.

I think it's a bit of a low-effort cheap shot to trick bigots into humiliating themselves in their clamour to abuse trans people tbh - they're more than capable of doing it themselves without prompting.

Didn't Glinner run some deranged conspiracy theory about Sugar secretly being a cis woman? I think there was a thread about it a few months ago.

'We can always tell' does seem to have fallen out of favour as an argument this year.

oh.... so you support the male people who use pictures of JK Rowling as this 'cheap shot'? Good to know, that you fully support misogyny. Isn't that ... bigoted....

I think anyone reading this and then reading about your comment about supporting women will understand that there is a direct contradiction in your words and just what you support.

It is not a surprise.

"'We can always tell' does seem to have fallen out of favour as an argument this year."

Is that because you have stopped posting in as many places? Because no, it has not fallen out of favour at all. Maybe you just stopped participating in those discussions.

Just a reminder, with filters and poses some male people might be able to convince others that they are female in images and video. However, in real life with observation, seeing movement and maybe interaction, it is highly likely that female people can tell accurately which people are male people. That doesn't change regardless of how many male people may not have that level of accuracy.

You are a funny little sausage aren’t you? I thought you supported women in defending themselves from abuse and misogyny?