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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Katy Montgomerie

318 replies

niadainud · 24/07/2025 19:35

Just wondering what people think about her. I was sent a link by someone, and I do occasionally try to watch the views of pro-trans people for "balance", but I really struggled with this one.

I find her excessively pleased with herself, incoherent, ageist and of course prone to flinging around insults such as "TERF", "transphone" and "bigot" every few minutes.

I'm not quite sure what gives her the confidence to "diss" people like Helen Joyce, Richard Dawkins et al, as if they're idiots and she is some sort of intellectual giant.

She says things like this: "The UK's Supreme Court ruled on "biological sex", but they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. The "Gender Critical" position on biology is just factually wrong. Finally hundreds of experts in the field come together to call out all this anti-science rubbish"

Other than being trans herself, does she have any justifiable claim to the superior knowledge she purports to have?

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2025 20:01

niadainud · 24/07/2025 19:48

I KNOW HE'S A MAN!!!!

Why do you say he is a wanker?

I just want to know whether I can trust my judgement that he's spouting a load of crap.

It's been a while since I ever made the mistake of looking at his Twitterings, but he's just really horrible and agressive towards any woman that doesn't fawn all over him and like you say he uses all kinds of slurs. Horrible man.

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:02

Enough4me · 24/07/2025 19:54

Do you believe this?

He shows the letter and quotes from it in a video, so it does seem to exist. How "genuine" it is, who the signatories are and what their motivation is, I don't know. I've googled some of the ones with less common names and they do seem to be real people.

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SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/07/2025 20:02

niadainud · 24/07/2025 19:52

I agree, but clearly plenty of people do think he has something of value to say.

Apparently a sizeable list of doctors and biologists wrote to the Supreme Court recently objecting to the ruling (the primary objection being the claim that sex in humans is binary). Do their arguments hold any weight?

No, none.

Sex is an objective, binary, and immutable characteristic, determined at conception by the presence of XX or XY chromosomes, and manifesting in two distinct reproductive roles: male and female. While a very small number of individuals are born with disorders of sexual development (DSDs), these are medical conditions affecting sexual development—not evidence of a third sex or spectrum. Every human is either male or female in terms of their reproductive biology which is what "sex" means, even when secondary sexual traits are atypical or surgically altered. Claims to the contrary, even by some clinicians or academics, often conflate sex with gender identity or psychological experience, which are separate and subjective. Politely put, such assertions misunderstand or misrepresent basic biological facts and blur critical distinctions that matter in law, medicine, and safeguarding.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/07/2025 20:03

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:02

He shows the letter and quotes from it in a video, so it does seem to exist. How "genuine" it is, who the signatories are and what their motivation is, I don't know. I've googled some of the ones with less common names and they do seem to be real people.

Half the people on the planet have an IQ less than 100.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2025 20:04

SmugglersHaunt · 24/07/2025 20:01

If you follow his arguments on Twitter they make no sense - he just tries to chase people down a rabbit hole of asking them what different scientific terms mean, getting more and more niche until he finds the edgiest edge case or a term he feels hasn’t been properly defined, then he thinks he has a “gotcha” that somehow magically shows that biological sex isn’t real. It’s all bollocks, of course, and can simply be answered with the ‘if a person is born with only one leg does that invalidate the fact that humans are bipeds?’ analogy.

He’s just another sad man desperate to have his delusion validated. He’s a big bloke as well, so must be difficult for him. Think Bernard Bresslaw in ‘Carry on Girls’ and you’re not far off the mark.

I didn't realise he was built like a brick shithouse. His photos are always very carefully posed and filtered.

SmugglersHaunt · 24/07/2025 20:05

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2025 20:04

I didn't realise he was built like a brick shithouse. His photos are always very carefully posed and filtered.

Yes it’s all long hair and slim lady shoulders in the videos but he’s about 45636ft tall with massive big hands and giant plates of meat

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:07

NHSFifeStatementFinalFINALFinalVersionV9FINAL · 24/07/2025 19:54

Apparently a sizeable list of doctors and biologists wrote to the Supreme Court recently objecting to the ruling (the primary objection being the claim that sex in humans is binary). Do their arguments hold any weight?

Where is the document and what does it claim?

It's called "Biology is not binary: a letter from biologists, doctors, and other experts to Bridget Phillipson, Minister for Women and Equalities".

Biology is not binary: a letter from biologists, doctors, and other experts to Bridget Phillipson, Minister for Women and Equalities

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vRXXLr0Nf8OvUg0idwnX3zJJeB-Bz9u_2fBYZyJQF6RkXrk9YXqPO6bFxfNLo8SkPO-53c0ufv0HqV1/pub

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Waitwhat23 · 24/07/2025 20:07

Also, faith in the knowledge and professionalism of the medical profession has taken a bit of a battering in the light of the various doctors who have given evidence at the NHS Fife ET.

A consultant, working in a hospital, claimed that she could not correctly sex new born babies as she is 'not an expert'.

I wouldn't trust her to pull a splinter out my finger, let alone anything more onerous.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2025 20:07

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:02

He shows the letter and quotes from it in a video, so it does seem to exist. How "genuine" it is, who the signatories are and what their motivation is, I don't know. I've googled some of the ones with less common names and they do seem to be real people.

If it was genuine, why wouldn't he post the letter online so we can see what is in it and who the signatories are?

Mind you, a bunch of doctors and biologists writing to the Supreme Court to complain about their interpretation of the law is about as relevant as the Plumbers Association writing to the Royal College of Oncologists expressing their view that chemotherapy is a waste of time.

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:09

Waitwhat23 · 24/07/2025 19:56

Sex in humans is binary and immutable.

Idiots cynically co-opting DSD's in order to (wrongly) argue that sex is a spectrum or using examples from other species does not change that fact.

I totally agree, but don't always feel confident enough in my knowledge of biology to refute these arguments.

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niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:11

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2025 20:07

If it was genuine, why wouldn't he post the letter online so we can see what is in it and who the signatories are?

Mind you, a bunch of doctors and biologists writing to the Supreme Court to complain about their interpretation of the law is about as relevant as the Plumbers Association writing to the Royal College of Oncologists expressing their view that chemotherapy is a waste of time.

It is posted online - see post up-thread.

But yes, fair point.

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niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:12

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2025 20:01

It's been a while since I ever made the mistake of looking at his Twitterings, but he's just really horrible and agressive towards any woman that doesn't fawn all over him and like you say he uses all kinds of slurs. Horrible man.

The slurs are just endless. And he's so bloody smug as well.

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Extravirginolive · 24/07/2025 20:12

The Supreme Court won't care about the letters.
They will probably just send a link to the judgment.

Monty is probably a big fish in TRA world which is a small pond. It gone to his head and he believes his own twaddle completely as do a lot of them.

They really despise women that disagree with them.

I haven't seen his stuff for years as a lot of people left Twitter when bluesky started up but this week a video popped up, probably the one you saw at a conference in king's college London

I watched a bit of it and it's still his same old dead end lies.
I wouldn't worry about him. He's famous in his pond, but the law doesn't care about that.

WallaceinAnderland · 24/07/2025 20:12

Even if it were true (which it's not), we'd still need to know what to call those people formerly known as women so that their rights can be upheld and protected.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/07/2025 20:13

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:11

It is posted online - see post up-thread.

But yes, fair point.

Alright, I'll have a go at it. Hang on.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/07/2025 20:14

Forgive me for the semi automated point by point response to this letter but I am very tired:

This covers all of their points and how they are very very clearly wrong

They are trying to cloud the discussions with words they do not understand so everyone gets confused. This is what the Russians do in propaganda.

Sex is immutable and binary.

1. Claim: “Biological sex is not binary but bimodal”

Rebuttal:
This is a rhetorical sleight of hand. Biological sex is indeed binary, because it is rooted in the reproductive function of the organism: male and female, defined by the production of small or large gametes (sperm or ova). While there are rare disorders of sexual development (DSDs), these are precisely that—disorders, not third sexes. They do not invalidate the binary model any more than congenital limb deformities disprove that humans are bipedal. The attempt to redefine “sex” into a spectrum or modal distribution misrepresents the purpose of biological classification, which is functional and reproductive, not cosmetic or psychological.

2. Claim: “Sex is made up of a collection of traits that vary—chromosomes, hormones, etc.”

Rebuttal:
This mischaracterises how sex is determined. While multiple traits correlate with sex, they are not all equally defining. The determining factor of biological sex is chromosomal: XX = female, XY = male. Everything else (hormones, secondary sex characteristics) flows from this root. Medical interventions may modify appearance or hormone levels, but they do not change sex—they change presentation. To claim otherwise collapses the distinction between cause and effect.

3. Claim: “Anatomy is not fixed—surgery and hormones change sex characteristics, so sex is not immutable.”

Rebuttal:
This confuses phenotypic modification with change of sex. No surgery or hormone regime can produce fully functional reproductive anatomy of the opposite sex. A male who undergoes vaginoplasty does not acquire ovaries or the ability to gestate life. As the UK’s Gender Recognition Act recognises, legal sex may be changed, but biological sex remains immutable. The Forstater v CGD Europe judgment confirmed this view is protected under UK equality law.

4. Claim: “Medical transition causes profound biological changes that invalidate binary sex.”

Rebuttal:
Medical changes are real but limited in scope. Hormonal treatment affects blood chemistry and some physical traits, but this is not the same as changing one’s biological sex. Medicine routinely adjusts for patient context—e.g., using female ranges for post-menopausal women—but this does not alter their sex, merely recognises variability within sex. That’s standard clinical care, not a refutation of binary classification.

5. Claim: “Sex is only binary for reproduction, which is largely irrelevant to daily life.”

Rebuttal:
This dismisses the entire legal and social purpose of sex-based protections, especially for safeguarding. Biological sex matters profoundly in areas like single-sex spaces, sport, prisons, intimate care, and data collection. These are not hypothetical concerns—misclassifying biological males as females can have serious safety implications, particularly in women’s toilets, refuges, or hospital wards. Reducing sex to a reproductive detail is a dangerous abstraction.

6. Claim: “Simple models of sex lead to harm and should not guide policy.”

Rebuttal:
What leads to harm is policy made without regard for material reality or safeguarding duties. The Equality Act allows for single-sex exceptions precisely because binary sex distinctions matter in vulnerable contexts. The EHRC and Supreme Court have correctly affirmed that “biological sex” is the relevant category in law. That is not a political statement—it is a necessary legal and biological fact, and ignoring it risks undermining the rights of women and girls.

Final Thought

Science must be descriptive, not prescriptive. A great many of the signatories to this letter are researchers in psychology, gender studies, or public health—not evolutionary biology or reproductive medicine. That matters. The existence of complexity in sex development does not erase the fundamental binary nature of human sex. The law must protect all, including those with rare conditions—but it cannot be rewritten to appease belief systems that deny biological reality.

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:16

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/07/2025 20:02

No, none.

Sex is an objective, binary, and immutable characteristic, determined at conception by the presence of XX or XY chromosomes, and manifesting in two distinct reproductive roles: male and female. While a very small number of individuals are born with disorders of sexual development (DSDs), these are medical conditions affecting sexual development—not evidence of a third sex or spectrum. Every human is either male or female in terms of their reproductive biology which is what "sex" means, even when secondary sexual traits are atypical or surgically altered. Claims to the contrary, even by some clinicians or academics, often conflate sex with gender identity or psychological experience, which are separate and subjective. Politely put, such assertions misunderstand or misrepresent basic biological facts and blur critical distinctions that matter in law, medicine, and safeguarding.

Reading this, or similar sensible prose, is like sinking into a warm bath after spending the day wearing cold, damp, itchy garments. Suddenly the world makes sense again.

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niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:17

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/07/2025 20:03

Half the people on the planet have an IQ less than 100.

Yes, it's very easy to forget that fact (even if you don't!).

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niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:18

SmugglersHaunt · 24/07/2025 20:05

Yes it’s all long hair and slim lady shoulders in the videos but he’s about 45636ft tall with massive big hands and giant plates of meat

Figures.

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niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:19

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/07/2025 20:14

Forgive me for the semi automated point by point response to this letter but I am very tired:

This covers all of their points and how they are very very clearly wrong

They are trying to cloud the discussions with words they do not understand so everyone gets confused. This is what the Russians do in propaganda.

Sex is immutable and binary.

1. Claim: “Biological sex is not binary but bimodal”

Rebuttal:
This is a rhetorical sleight of hand. Biological sex is indeed binary, because it is rooted in the reproductive function of the organism: male and female, defined by the production of small or large gametes (sperm or ova). While there are rare disorders of sexual development (DSDs), these are precisely that—disorders, not third sexes. They do not invalidate the binary model any more than congenital limb deformities disprove that humans are bipedal. The attempt to redefine “sex” into a spectrum or modal distribution misrepresents the purpose of biological classification, which is functional and reproductive, not cosmetic or psychological.

2. Claim: “Sex is made up of a collection of traits that vary—chromosomes, hormones, etc.”

Rebuttal:
This mischaracterises how sex is determined. While multiple traits correlate with sex, they are not all equally defining. The determining factor of biological sex is chromosomal: XX = female, XY = male. Everything else (hormones, secondary sex characteristics) flows from this root. Medical interventions may modify appearance or hormone levels, but they do not change sex—they change presentation. To claim otherwise collapses the distinction between cause and effect.

3. Claim: “Anatomy is not fixed—surgery and hormones change sex characteristics, so sex is not immutable.”

Rebuttal:
This confuses phenotypic modification with change of sex. No surgery or hormone regime can produce fully functional reproductive anatomy of the opposite sex. A male who undergoes vaginoplasty does not acquire ovaries or the ability to gestate life. As the UK’s Gender Recognition Act recognises, legal sex may be changed, but biological sex remains immutable. The Forstater v CGD Europe judgment confirmed this view is protected under UK equality law.

4. Claim: “Medical transition causes profound biological changes that invalidate binary sex.”

Rebuttal:
Medical changes are real but limited in scope. Hormonal treatment affects blood chemistry and some physical traits, but this is not the same as changing one’s biological sex. Medicine routinely adjusts for patient context—e.g., using female ranges for post-menopausal women—but this does not alter their sex, merely recognises variability within sex. That’s standard clinical care, not a refutation of binary classification.

5. Claim: “Sex is only binary for reproduction, which is largely irrelevant to daily life.”

Rebuttal:
This dismisses the entire legal and social purpose of sex-based protections, especially for safeguarding. Biological sex matters profoundly in areas like single-sex spaces, sport, prisons, intimate care, and data collection. These are not hypothetical concerns—misclassifying biological males as females can have serious safety implications, particularly in women’s toilets, refuges, or hospital wards. Reducing sex to a reproductive detail is a dangerous abstraction.

6. Claim: “Simple models of sex lead to harm and should not guide policy.”

Rebuttal:
What leads to harm is policy made without regard for material reality or safeguarding duties. The Equality Act allows for single-sex exceptions precisely because binary sex distinctions matter in vulnerable contexts. The EHRC and Supreme Court have correctly affirmed that “biological sex” is the relevant category in law. That is not a political statement—it is a necessary legal and biological fact, and ignoring it risks undermining the rights of women and girls.

Final Thought

Science must be descriptive, not prescriptive. A great many of the signatories to this letter are researchers in psychology, gender studies, or public health—not evolutionary biology or reproductive medicine. That matters. The existence of complexity in sex development does not erase the fundamental binary nature of human sex. The law must protect all, including those with rare conditions—but it cannot be rewritten to appease belief systems that deny biological reality.

Perfect - thank you!

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Brainworm · 24/07/2025 20:20

when people say sex is binary and immutable, they are referring to the human species comprising of people who are one of 2 sexes. Each sex plays a distinctly different role in sexual reproduction.

97% of the population are fertile (or were or will become fertile). Of the remaining 3%, infertility issues are male or female infertility issues.

There are plenty of new discoveries to be made about within and between sex similarities and differences. None of them will alter the fact that humans reproduce through sexual reproduction and there are males and females.

All of the claims about how varied different elements of the sexed body can be simply highlight the range and variation that can occur within each category.

Do people who claim they don’t know, or can’t really know their sex really not know who needs to do what with a condom should they want to avoid an STI?!

soupycustard · 24/07/2025 20:23

KM is completely ignorant of biology but like many males, utterly convinced of his own rightness in all things.
As to that letter, there was at least one really good thread on it straight after it was published. I'm afraid I cant find it now. But without going over each point, it totally lacks intellectual rigour and mixes a number of concepts together in a way which is consistent with most TRA arguments. If anyone else can find that thread, it's useful as a few posters explained the issues very well and clearly.

niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:26

Thank you for everyone's responses. I'm glad the discussion got off the ground, as I was about to resign myself to an endless stream of people saying, "It's he/him/his!" (which of course I don't dispute - it's so easy to get caught up in the habit of "being nice").

It took me a while to get my head around the argument that sex demonstrably couldn't be binary if anyone fell outside the two categories, for whatever reason. I think perhaps the explanation is that as humans are organic, things (i.e. mutations) will happen (i.e. DSDs) that are not the intention of the organism. But of course DSDs are not a third sex, they are a medical/biological anomaly (or series of anomalies) which don't fit the binary - but nor do they disprove it.

As I said, I'm not a biologist, so if I've made any grave errors in my reasoning there please feel free to set me straight.

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niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:30

Brainworm · 24/07/2025 20:20

when people say sex is binary and immutable, they are referring to the human species comprising of people who are one of 2 sexes. Each sex plays a distinctly different role in sexual reproduction.

97% of the population are fertile (or were or will become fertile). Of the remaining 3%, infertility issues are male or female infertility issues.

There are plenty of new discoveries to be made about within and between sex similarities and differences. None of them will alter the fact that humans reproduce through sexual reproduction and there are males and females.

All of the claims about how varied different elements of the sexed body can be simply highlight the range and variation that can occur within each category.

Do people who claim they don’t know, or can’t really know their sex really not know who needs to do what with a condom should they want to avoid an STI?!

All of the claims about how varied different elements of the sexed body can be simply highlight the range and variation that can occur within each category.

Exactly. Men are generally taller than women, on average, but a 6'2" woman is still a woman and isn't any more male than one who is 5'2". Similarly a woman whose bust size is 32A is not less of a woman than one who is 38DD. A man with low testosterone is still a man. Etc.

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niadainud · 24/07/2025 20:32

Waitwhat23 · 24/07/2025 20:07

Also, faith in the knowledge and professionalism of the medical profession has taken a bit of a battering in the light of the various doctors who have given evidence at the NHS Fife ET.

A consultant, working in a hospital, claimed that she could not correctly sex new born babies as she is 'not an expert'.

I wouldn't trust her to pull a splinter out my finger, let alone anything more onerous.

Jeez.

The number of times you see people being interviewed and asked, for example, to define a woman. They way they squirm and stutter is just embarrassing, but I'm sure it's disingenuous 90% of the time and they just know that they can't say what a woman is without totally losing face.

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