Katy Montgomerie

[niadainud]

Just wondering what people think about her. I was sent a link by someone, and I do occasionally try to watch the views of pro-trans people for "balance", but I really struggled with this one.

I find her excessively pleased with herself, incoherent, ageist and of course prone to flinging around insults such as "TERF", "transphone" and "bigot" every few minutes.

I'm not quite sure what gives her the confidence to "diss" people like Helen Joyce, Richard Dawkins et al, as if they're idiots and she is some sort of intellectual giant.

She says things like this: "The UK's Supreme Court ruled on "biological sex", but they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. The "Gender Critical" position on biology is just factually wrong. Finally hundreds of experts in the field come together to call out all this anti-science rubbish"

Other than being trans herself, does she have any justifiable claim to the superior knowledge she purports to have?

I don't think anyone was having a go at you, it's just most of the regulars on this board have been talking about this issue for over a decade, realised early on that the pronouns are the thin end of the wedge and believe in correct sexing for accuracy.

After all if you aren't allowed to use accurate language you can't articulate what the issues are.

This was shared again in a different thread, you might find it an interesting read.

Pronouns are Rohypnol • Fair Play For Women

Thanks. MN is an excellent resource for this sort of thing!

It amazes me how unintelligent a lot of these so-called experts are when it comes to putting together a coherent and logical argument.

The thing is, even if sex was a spectrum and people were walking around being 65% male, and 35% female - so what?

Trans people are people who have a sex, they have a gender identity, and they believe that these somehow do not 'match'. So how could you have a trans person if they didn't have a sex to match or not-match their gender identity?

What are the list of gender identities that match a 65%M/35%F person? They can't even write out a list of those that match male or female.

No, I know - it was just getting a bit repetitive and not giving the discussion any substance.

Totally agree about accurate language. I should have used "he" in the first place, but I was introduced to KM through quite a militant pro-trans group I used to belong to (for complicated reasons) so am in the habit of calling KM "her" so as not to be lynched.

Thanks for the link.

The number of times you see people being interviewed and asked, for example, to define a woman. They way they squirm and stutter is just embarrassing, but I'm sure it's disingenuous 90% of the time and they just know that they can't say what a woman is without totally losing face.

And anyone who says they are going to transition to being a woman, and then alters their body to appear female, knows full well that they think women are female. Unless this is just a huge massive coincidence??

I think nothing of him. I don’t think about these people. I ignore them - which is what we all should do.

Posters here can be blunt and straight talking. I quite like that personally.

But contrary to TRA opinion, the regulars here are actually really lovely people and welcome open good faith discussion.

I just clicked on this link and my computer crashed.

Fair enough!

I agree.

We are not.

Some of us are absolute horrors. NAMING NO NAMES.

Sorry! Perhaps your computer is gender critical?

It runs on binary coding, so highly likely.

Sex is binary. DSDs don't change that.

So, some figures. The percentage of people with DSDs is very small, though noone seems to know how small - one paper says "Estimates of incidence range from more than 1 in 100 to less than 1 in 5,000 births". A huge variation in figures. One organisation (dsdfamilies,org) claims "Every year in the UK, approximately 150 children are diagnosed with differences of sex
development (DSD) – and that means there are approximately 2,300 children living with DSD conditions in the UK." Tiny numbers.

Then we have the percentage of trans people. Again, estimates vary between perhaps 0.5 and 2% and many rely on poor data.

It is the trans community pushing the argument that sex is not binary, because it would benefit them. It isn't people with DSDs who push this argument. So, do trans people have some kind of gender dysphoria because they have DSDs? No, they don't. One paper claims that "Gender dysphoria generally affects between 8.5-20% of individuals with DSDs, depending on the type of DSD". I haven't found any figures for the percentage of DSDs among people who say they are trans. However, given that the incidence of trans people is rising rapidly, while I expect DSDs remain fairly constant (though rates of diagnosis and treatment may vary) I cannot imagine there is much of a link. If there was, I'm sure they would be lining up to prove it.

I'm not linking all the papers, you can hunt them out if you want from the phrases I've quoted.

Basically, sex is binary and in many situations it matters. People with DSDs are still male or female. Watch an interview with Caster Semanya and tell me if you think he is female. Watch Imane Khelif boxing and tell me if you think he is female. Watch their behaviour and tell me if they think they're female. (Hint, they really don't.) Trans people are still male or female. How many females are convicted of sexual assault, rape, violence, indecent exposure? And how many trans-identifying men? Whatever is going on in their heads, it is not reflected in their behaviour.

Sorry, that was longer than expected!

😂 @ArabellaScott

I know absolutely nothing about technology tbh but I notice the link is to a google doc, I'm sure someone mentioned on the NHS Fife threads that some people might not want to click on those for some reason?

The thing is though, I consider myself as GC as they come (though not as articulate or well-informed as some on this board) but I struggle to define what a woman is. I mean, it's an adult human female, but what's a female? It's not just about chromosomes, because variations from XX/XY are relatively common (moreso than variations in the number of limbs for example, I would have thought). And it's not just about fertility and reproduction because not everybody is fertile (someone upthread said that 97% of people are/will be/have been fertile, but that seems high based on my own small social circle and the number of couples who have struggled with infertility.)
So how do we define "female"?

This is what I don't understand about trans identified people who deny the existence of biological sex.

If biological sex didn't exist, trans people couldn't exist because there would be nothing to transition to or from.

I don't normally click on them, but I didn't notice that was a google doc until after I clicked on it. I won't make that mistake again.

Is your body "set up" to produce large immobile gametes (eggs), or small mobile gametes (sperm)? It does not matter whether your body actually produces them or not, or whether there are issues or not. It is always one or the other.

Female- of the sex class which produces large immobile gametes

As far as I understand it, there are some ways that if one is logged into a google work account, one's username is potentially visible to the owner of the google doc. But I don't understand it very well. I don't click on them, just in case.

I've argued with him on Twitter long ago. It was a quite irritating experience. Not sure why there's a thread about him in particular when there are so many of these gender zealots.

OP

If you are after shorter form content that might help you to calm the dissonance of learning that there really are medical doctors and scientists who would put their signature to a letter declaring sex is complicated for the purpose of safeguarding, check out the Paradox Institute content. It is a good starting place or perhaps a good ‘resetting’ place.

https://theparadoxinstitute.org

Maty Katy is a bog standard misogynist who doesn't really have credibility. Katy also a shitebag who backed out of a debate with I think Jane Clare Jones.

I think he's more intelligent than the average TRA and can be quite witty in arguments so gullible people believe that means he must be right. Peel that away and there's a very messed up conflicted man who can't tolerate even one woman saying no to him.

He must be pushing 40 now and I really wonder how he'll cope with ageing when he sets so much store by superficial looks.