"Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components" - Thread 2

[MissScarletInTheBallroom]

The last thread ended with Tandora attempting to sidestep the question about what she would say if her daughter had been raped by a trans woman in a female only space and no longer believed that trans women should be in female only spaces as a consequence.

Her last reply was along the lines of, "The same thing I would say if she had been bullied by a green person at school and said she no longer wanted to go to school with green people."

@Tandora can we have a serious answer?

So all you've got, after hundreds of posts, is a personal opinion?

What a disappointment.

And in case you primly argue that it's not nice to go around being an arsehole, no it isn't. But unless I cross a specific legal threshold, it's not illegal.

Because this is the issue when you have two or more sets of rights that collide. Just 'being nice' doesn't solve the problem.

Because what you consider nice, I consider an infringement of my rights, and vice versa.

Isn't it fortunate that the SC have sorted all this out already?

I suggest you follow the thread for the context. It’s not about doing as I say, it’s about treating trans people in a manner that is compatible with their basic human dignity- something that should be available to all people, even minorities, in a civilised , democratic society.

Nope. How about he respects women’s dignity and experience and stays out of women’s spaces. How about that? Or is it only women who are expected to show respect and kindness. No men should be in female spaces whatever their identity.

Opinions of course. Supported by science, reason and basic principles of human decency .

If he is using female-only facilities then you have every right to tell him to leave, just as with every other male.

I have followed the thread. Youre just repeating yourself.

I have to assume that you don't know what the words you are typing actually mean, or what indeed you are actually arguing for.

So you also agree women should be shown kindness and their dignity respected then? Awesome. So you’ll join women in expecting males to stay out of female spaces.

In my vision of a civilised society:
Women are not fired from universities and other roles for questioning things, and not blanket believing what they are told they must believe.

Men don't compete in women's sports

Men don't go to women's refuges as clients or staff and then shout at women who are afraid of them and call them bigots and tell them that they need to "reframe their trauma".

Men don't take scholarships for women

Companies don't employ men and claim that they have sufficient women in certain roles because the men say that they are women

People don't use phrases like "Punch a TERF". If you take away TERF and replace it with any religious or ethnic group, you would quite rightly be picked-up on it.

I can respect a Muslim/ Christian without declaring that Allah/ Jehovah is the one true God. But for trans ideology I must go along with what they say even if I don't believe it. My lawful decision not to is democratic society in action

But you didn't provide any supporting science, you ignored those questions.

So you don't have to believe someone's claim to power to obey them.

Gee, thanks.

It is of course true, but why should we enshrine it in law that women need to obey men who claim this power?

You don't have to believe someone's claim to power to obey them, but obey them you must.

No one is talking about ‘womanhood’ being ‘stolen’.

But carry on….

Trans people are not disrespecting women for being who they are and asking to be included and accommodated in society .

I respectfully disagree

There’s no law that says you have to obey trans people don’t be silly. But you shouldn’t feel free to bully and harass them and then be immune to being fired from your job.

they are accommodated and included. . In male spaces. No one is stopping a male with a trans identity from using males spaces. If they feel uncomfortable or unwelcome, that’s not women’s problem. Go tell men to budge up and be kind.

What about if a man identified as being 10 years old? Would you present the same argument that he should be included and accommodated in spaces and places for 10 year olds. If not why not?

I mean at least said man has experience of being 10 years old at one point, a man on the other hand never has and never will have experience of being a woman.

I agree, if sharing certain spaces with those having a penis is not a danger to women, then trans women are perfectly safe in male spaces with or without genital mutilation (sorry, bottom surgery).

Exactly.

What would constitute bullying and harassment?

See above posts for why that completely incompatible with accommodating and including trans people. It’s completely denying/ refusing what it is to be trans and incompatible with a respecting trans persons basic dignity and humanity.

Where did you provide evidence based, peer reviewed papers to support your claim that trans women are, in fact, women? I’m afraid I missed it. I think everyone else did too.

Did anyone see any links?

No. Because being trans is a real thing- as real as being autistic or gay.

Identifying as a 10 year old is not.

Being intellectually disabled is and of course as a society we must accommodate intellectually disabled people- although we do not do this well either.

But allowing males into female spaces is totally incompatible with women’s basic dignity and humanity. Why would using male facilities be against basic humanity and dignity for a male? Are you saying males are dangerous?

There are 10,000s of peer review academic papers documenting, evidencing, theorising about transness. Have a quick perusal of any library search engine, you’ll find them very easily.