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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

1000 replies

nauticant · 24/07/2025 14:08

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
nauticant · 24/07/2025 22:29

KnottyAuty · 24/07/2025 21:47

I thought so too, but the ruling came before the May 2025 date that JR was bandying around (albeit the English book). And the bench book says that pronouns are supposed to be avoided. And NC was using them very liberally - she would use DU's name and then also use male pronouns. So they could potentially try to stir up trouble. But based on the publicity around this case I feel that the end result might be a change to the Bench Book. About 5-6 years ago it was full TWAW with compelled speech for witnesses - who were told off by the judge if they didn't use preferred pronouns, even if their experience of that person was as a male and the first time they knew of their trans-ness was when they turned up in the dock with a handbag?! Sorry I don't have examples but others here can probably confirm that some women had to refer to "her penis" to describe their sex attack. Horrific.

Were she to be legally sanctioned, I would expect that a mysterious backer would support NC launching her own Article 10 case.

OP posts:
nauticant · 24/07/2025 22:34

FedUpFeminist · 24/07/2025 22:11

Can anyone tell me if the fact that NHS Fife are calling the IT guy as a witness means they must have some good evidence re the allegations from NC re missing evidence?

If I were to guess it would be to support an argument that NHSF made reasonable efforts to meet their disclosure requirements to comply with court orders.

OP posts:
Lunde · 24/07/2025 22:41

SirChenjins · 24/07/2025 22:17

I wondered that too. NHSF must be quite sure of themselves to call this witness? (Although I appreciate they've been quite sure themselves in other areas too, and look where that's got them...)

It's hard to tell. JR's witnesses this week to testify about the reasonableness of the disciplinary process have been a complete shitshow so far apart from Charlotte Myles who came across as somewhat reasonable.

I'm wondering if it will be like the "IT" experts at the Post Office inquiry.

NebulousSupportPostcard · 24/07/2025 22:41

Butchyrestingface · 24/07/2025 15:32

Did she jump up and down like a jack-in-the-box last week whenever any of the NHS Fife witnesses misgendered Dr Upton?

Haha sorry delayed reply but she delivered a long sentence using "Dr Upton" in place of any other pronouns, all the while that she was objecting to NC's latest point

GailBlancheViola · 24/07/2025 22:45

MarieDeGournay · 24/07/2025 15:05

When I read the judge asking 'Will you take an oath'? I hear 'Ye'll have had yer tea'

Memories of my grandmother came flooding back there!

SidewaysOtter · 24/07/2025 22:53

Ref the chicken chat, I've been wanting chickens for a long time. But observing a friends' chooks, I realise why they're descended from dinosaurs - they're vicious blighters. But...I still like the idea of some rescue hens...

And - while I appreciate this was about two threads ago now - someone mentioned fennel. If there is one thing worse than celery, it's fucking FENNEL, so please keep that sort of abomination to yourself, TIA.

BIWI · 24/07/2025 22:53

Thank you everyone. Special thanks to @nauticant for keeping all the threads going. I’ve spent most of today racing to keep up.

I’ve also got this in my head now:

I'm not a pheasant plucker, I'm a pheasant plucker's son. I'm only plucking pheasants 'til the pheasant plucker comes

Given all the talk about chicken sexing!

(Probably says more about me than it does about anyone else)

KnottyAuty · 24/07/2025 22:54

TriesNotToBeCynical · 24/07/2025 21:53

I've carefully read the May edition of the book, and it talks about the judge being neutral and witnesses not being constrained, and trans parties not being misgendered to their face. Also about the issue of pronouns not being raised if not relevant to the case. But I get no suggestion in it that parties/their counsel should be inhibited in using either type of pronouns to make their point when being trans is actually relevant to the issues in the case.

Oh thanks for this - I forgot I could look it up myself!

Having had a look I think it was very unwise for JR to point this update out and draw the Tribunal's attention to it - the references to single-sex spaces are not favourable to her clients' case?!

From page 195:
"In the context of single-sex services, the Supreme Court has made it clear that there is no entitlement for anyone to use single-sex services intended for members of the opposite sex".

Full document here:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/ETBB-July-2024-May-2025-update.pdf

Not sure what JR is quoting but this section says (my bold):

Page 194: Treatment of trans people in court

17. Typically, it should be unproblematic for the judge to use the trans person’s preferred name and pronouns (“he/she” or “they”), regardless of whether they have obtained a GRC. However, where one side’s case hinges on the recognition of the biological sex of the trans person as crucial, and the other side on the recognition of their chosen identification, judges need to be careful not to let the choice of gendered pronouns give an appearance of bias, or that there is a predetermined conclusion. If possible, using the individual’s name instead of a pronoun where these pronouns are contested, or alternatively, the gender-neutral pronoun of “they” may help minimise offence towards, or the undermining of, an individual’s personal identification, while also not validating and giving it undue weight over the perceptions of others identification, while also not validating and giving it undue weight over the perceptions of others.

18. There will be other situations where the judge may decide not to use the trans person’s preferred name/pronouns to ensure a witness can give best evidence, eg a female rape victim may find it incomprehensible if the judge and others in court refer to her biologically male attacker as “she”. In the end, it is for the judge to ensure that a proper balance is struck between respecting how a trans person, as with any person, wishes to be addressed (within reason), and enabling a witness to give best evidence/recount events as accurately and truthfully as possible.

19. Witnesses should never be compelled to use the trans person’s preferred pronouns. It should always be permitted for them to refer to a person how they presently understand or previously knew them (as in any case, eg a fraud where a defendant has used multiple identities). A victim of domestic abuse, sexual violence or assault by a trans person is particularly likely to describe the perpetrator in accordance with the victim’s experience and perception of events. To do otherwise, and place additional or artificial barriers on a witness, is likely to detract from their ability to give best evidence.

20. A person’s biological sex or their trans history should not normally need to be disclosed if it is not relevant to the legal proceedings. Where appropriate, in the interests of the administration of justice, the court may consider making reporting restrictions under s.4 Contempt of Court Act 1981, or a range of privacy orders under rule 49, The Employment Tribunal (Rules of Procedure) 2024 or other relevant Tribunal Rules, to prevent the disclosure of a trans person’s previous name and trans history. Alternatively, it may direct that part or all the hearing be in private, subject to the need to balance competing convention rights. It is usually inappropriate to enquire about someone’s medical history, including their anatomical status, unless it is relevant to the case. If it becomes relevant, the issue should be handled with sensitivity. Again, a private hearing might be directed, subject to considering competing convention rights.

21. Fundamental principles of equality and acceptance of diversity demand that no prejudice or difference in treatment is accorded to a person due to their appearance, including their manner of dress. Any person’s “gender expression” and/or choice of clothing should be respected unless there is an affront to public decency or a clear intention to insult the judicial process. This applies equally to all people, whether trans or not.

...

Page 198 Recommended terminology

38. Where relevant, many people will find it acceptable to be described as a “trans person” or a “transgender person”. Others may prefer to describe themselves more specifically as, eg “non-binary”.

39. Despite its use in current legislation, the term “transsexual” is generally considered to be outdated or potentially offensive to many trans people, as is the use of “transgender” as a noun (eg “he is a transgender”).

40. A “trans woman” describes someone whose biological sex is male and who now identifies as a woman.

41. A “trans man” describes someone whose biological sex is female and who now identifies as a man.

42. The term “cisgender” or “cis” is sometimes used to describe people who are not transgender and are assumed to have a gender identity that matches their biological sex. Many people feel strongly that they do not wish to be described as “cisgender” or “cis”.

43. Nowadays, it is generally inaccurate to refer to someone as a “pre-operative” or “postoperative” trans person, because many trans people do not wish to undergo any particular gender-reassignment surgery.

44. “Deadnaming” is a term used where a trans person, in the course of transitioning or having transitioned, is called by their birth name, or where their birth name is otherwise referred to, instead of their chosen name. In court, witnesses may refer to a person by their deadname if this is how they knew them.

45. Trans people, lesbian, gay and bisexual people are often referred to collectively as “LGBT”. Many research papers also look collectively into issues of discrimination against these groups. The term “LGBT” is sometimes extended by adding “Q” (queer or questioning), “I” (intersex), “A” (asexual, a term used by people who do not experience sexual attraction); and/or, more generically, simply a “+”.

46. “Gender critical” is a phrase which, broadly speaking, refers to a belief that sex is fundamentally immutable and binary. People who are gender critical do not believe that a person can change their sex.

47. Gender-critical beliefs are protected beliefs, even if they might offend or upset trans people (or others)

Also from page 212 Appendix A on the Equality Act

  1. The claimant need not have the relevant protected characteristic. The protection extends to those speaking out on behalf of and/or supporting others who have been discriminated against.
RabbitFurCoat · 24/07/2025 23:00

SidewaysOtter · 24/07/2025 22:53

Ref the chicken chat, I've been wanting chickens for a long time. But observing a friends' chooks, I realise why they're descended from dinosaurs - they're vicious blighters. But...I still like the idea of some rescue hens...

And - while I appreciate this was about two threads ago now - someone mentioned fennel. If there is one thing worse than celery, it's fucking FENNEL, so please keep that sort of abomination to yourself, TIA.

I really like fennel in tea. Struggle with it as a chompable though.

Lunde · 24/07/2025 23:01

Largesso · 24/07/2025 22:20

Respectfully I disagree about it not being a big day! Essentially AH and AH confirmed that DU was allowed to secretly change the notes of his interview for the disciplinary i/x and that there were no notes kept of his changes and the initial recording was destroyed. And after all that AG tries to fake an email so it looked like that didn’t happen.

HUGE!

I agree - there was less drama than KS bursting into tears at the mention of Rihanna but some gobsmacking stuff about the process.

"It's not ideal" is clearly Fifespeak for "This was a complete shitshow"

"We didn't keep the earlier drafts and recordings" - is Fifespeak for "We just let DU change the statement whenever he found a new hissy fit incident of patient care concerns to throw in"

"The investigation was carried out with urgency" is Fifespeak for "We dragged it out for a year hoping that SP wouldn't have the funds to pursue it and would take her punishment"

"We kept DU and KS informed of the changes as a matter of compassion" is Fifespeak for "We didn't give a shit about SP in this process and didn't bother to tell her we'd thrown in a few more of DU's imaginary, vindictive allegations into the complaint"

Also thought that JR made a complete idiot of herself with the "I expected an apology" from NC malarky and came over as really petulant. It allowed NC to turn the tables of her quite effectively. It also made me wonder if JR had written Fife's petulant statement last week as an attempt to grab the weekend headlines but just hadn't expected an idiot to post it while the ET was still in session.

It was also interesting to see that there were searching questions from the judge and P1 about the fairness of the process, preferential treatment to DU and allowing witnesses (KS/ED) access to preparing and amending DU's statement - but hey in Fife "it's not ideal" 🙄

nauticant · 24/07/2025 23:03

Watching JR I often get the sense her arguments seem to be fixed at where the law was in about 2018 and don't take into account what's happened since.

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 24/07/2025 23:04

SidewaysOtter · 24/07/2025 22:53

Ref the chicken chat, I've been wanting chickens for a long time. But observing a friends' chooks, I realise why they're descended from dinosaurs - they're vicious blighters. But...I still like the idea of some rescue hens...

And - while I appreciate this was about two threads ago now - someone mentioned fennel. If there is one thing worse than celery, it's fucking FENNEL, so please keep that sort of abomination to yourself, TIA.

Can't agree with you about fennel. Sliced paper thin, with a drizzle of really good olive oil and a sprinkle of celery salt and it's beautiful.

And Finocchiona salami is the best type of salami.

ILikeDungs · 24/07/2025 23:08

They can be quite resilient or drop dead for no apparent reason in front of your eyes. There's never a dull day keeping chickens

In my experience chickens are either happy or dead.

Lins77 · 24/07/2025 23:10

Is the Guardian not covering this at all?

MyAmpleSheep · 24/07/2025 23:13

ILikeDungs · 24/07/2025 23:08

They can be quite resilient or drop dead for no apparent reason in front of your eyes. There's never a dull day keeping chickens

In my experience chickens are either happy or dead.

Is it true they eat each other? I heard that if you forget to feed them then you end up with just one chicken. And a lot of feathers.

rebmacesrevda · 24/07/2025 23:17

Lins77 · 24/07/2025 23:10

Is the Guardian not covering this at all?

It’s going so badly for FIfe and Upton that even the Guardian can’t spin it to suit their agenda. So they’ve given up, and that’s fine by me.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 24/07/2025 23:20

KnottyAuty · 24/07/2025 22:54

Oh thanks for this - I forgot I could look it up myself!

Having had a look I think it was very unwise for JR to point this update out and draw the Tribunal's attention to it - the references to single-sex spaces are not favourable to her clients' case?!

From page 195:
"In the context of single-sex services, the Supreme Court has made it clear that there is no entitlement for anyone to use single-sex services intended for members of the opposite sex".

Full document here:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/ETBB-July-2024-May-2025-update.pdf

Not sure what JR is quoting but this section says (my bold):

Page 194: Treatment of trans people in court

17. Typically, it should be unproblematic for the judge to use the trans person’s preferred name and pronouns (“he/she” or “they”), regardless of whether they have obtained a GRC. However, where one side’s case hinges on the recognition of the biological sex of the trans person as crucial, and the other side on the recognition of their chosen identification, judges need to be careful not to let the choice of gendered pronouns give an appearance of bias, or that there is a predetermined conclusion. If possible, using the individual’s name instead of a pronoun where these pronouns are contested, or alternatively, the gender-neutral pronoun of “they” may help minimise offence towards, or the undermining of, an individual’s personal identification, while also not validating and giving it undue weight over the perceptions of others identification, while also not validating and giving it undue weight over the perceptions of others.

18. There will be other situations where the judge may decide not to use the trans person’s preferred name/pronouns to ensure a witness can give best evidence, eg a female rape victim may find it incomprehensible if the judge and others in court refer to her biologically male attacker as “she”. In the end, it is for the judge to ensure that a proper balance is struck between respecting how a trans person, as with any person, wishes to be addressed (within reason), and enabling a witness to give best evidence/recount events as accurately and truthfully as possible.

19. Witnesses should never be compelled to use the trans person’s preferred pronouns. It should always be permitted for them to refer to a person how they presently understand or previously knew them (as in any case, eg a fraud where a defendant has used multiple identities). A victim of domestic abuse, sexual violence or assault by a trans person is particularly likely to describe the perpetrator in accordance with the victim’s experience and perception of events. To do otherwise, and place additional or artificial barriers on a witness, is likely to detract from their ability to give best evidence.

20. A person’s biological sex or their trans history should not normally need to be disclosed if it is not relevant to the legal proceedings. Where appropriate, in the interests of the administration of justice, the court may consider making reporting restrictions under s.4 Contempt of Court Act 1981, or a range of privacy orders under rule 49, The Employment Tribunal (Rules of Procedure) 2024 or other relevant Tribunal Rules, to prevent the disclosure of a trans person’s previous name and trans history. Alternatively, it may direct that part or all the hearing be in private, subject to the need to balance competing convention rights. It is usually inappropriate to enquire about someone’s medical history, including their anatomical status, unless it is relevant to the case. If it becomes relevant, the issue should be handled with sensitivity. Again, a private hearing might be directed, subject to considering competing convention rights.

21. Fundamental principles of equality and acceptance of diversity demand that no prejudice or difference in treatment is accorded to a person due to their appearance, including their manner of dress. Any person’s “gender expression” and/or choice of clothing should be respected unless there is an affront to public decency or a clear intention to insult the judicial process. This applies equally to all people, whether trans or not.

...

Page 198 Recommended terminology

38. Where relevant, many people will find it acceptable to be described as a “trans person” or a “transgender person”. Others may prefer to describe themselves more specifically as, eg “non-binary”.

39. Despite its use in current legislation, the term “transsexual” is generally considered to be outdated or potentially offensive to many trans people, as is the use of “transgender” as a noun (eg “he is a transgender”).

40. A “trans woman” describes someone whose biological sex is male and who now identifies as a woman.

41. A “trans man” describes someone whose biological sex is female and who now identifies as a man.

42. The term “cisgender” or “cis” is sometimes used to describe people who are not transgender and are assumed to have a gender identity that matches their biological sex. Many people feel strongly that they do not wish to be described as “cisgender” or “cis”.

43. Nowadays, it is generally inaccurate to refer to someone as a “pre-operative” or “postoperative” trans person, because many trans people do not wish to undergo any particular gender-reassignment surgery.

44. “Deadnaming” is a term used where a trans person, in the course of transitioning or having transitioned, is called by their birth name, or where their birth name is otherwise referred to, instead of their chosen name. In court, witnesses may refer to a person by their deadname if this is how they knew them.

45. Trans people, lesbian, gay and bisexual people are often referred to collectively as “LGBT”. Many research papers also look collectively into issues of discrimination against these groups. The term “LGBT” is sometimes extended by adding “Q” (queer or questioning), “I” (intersex), “A” (asexual, a term used by people who do not experience sexual attraction); and/or, more generically, simply a “+”.

46. “Gender critical” is a phrase which, broadly speaking, refers to a belief that sex is fundamentally immutable and binary. People who are gender critical do not believe that a person can change their sex.

47. Gender-critical beliefs are protected beliefs, even if they might offend or upset trans people (or others)

Also from page 212 Appendix A on the Equality Act

  1. The claimant need not have the relevant protected characteristic. The protection extends to those speaking out on behalf of and/or supporting others who have been discriminated against.

Will the panel check out the document after JR claimed to quote from it or would it have been down to NC to refute JRs claims?

Petesplumbing · 24/07/2025 23:22

crazysnakess · 24/07/2025 19:19

I think it's also because it's been easy to get every single witness to slip up and call him he. As soon as one person does it, everyone else does, because it takes a conscious effort to use she.

Bit difficult to call this harassment when they're all doing it. And at the same time demonstrating that they all know he's a man.

It was also a bit rich for JR to get huffy about using the proper pronoun for Dr U when I am pretty sure she did it herself in the earlier part of the tribunal.

I notice that neither Sandie Peggie or Naomi Cunningham have ever slipped a ‘she’ into the mix by accident, despite everyone else attempting to ‘she’ all over the place.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 24/07/2025 23:25

SidewaysOtter · 24/07/2025 22:53

Ref the chicken chat, I've been wanting chickens for a long time. But observing a friends' chooks, I realise why they're descended from dinosaurs - they're vicious blighters. But...I still like the idea of some rescue hens...

And - while I appreciate this was about two threads ago now - someone mentioned fennel. If there is one thing worse than celery, it's fucking FENNEL, so please keep that sort of abomination to yourself, TIA.

Lovely Otter, that was me. Fennel is fabulous in salads & soups or in a Chinese veg stir fry (which can be eaten as is or stirred into rice, noodles or broth). Most veg tastes meh at best. Veg needs something to make it more interesting, & that's what the fennel is for.

But if you're a fennelphobe, that's OK too. I won't even call you a bigot; we can all get that elsewhere.

Supporterofwomensrights · 24/07/2025 23:32

Working FT and keeping up with this case is gruelling (so how much worse must it be for our hero Sandie?).

I'm still only halfway through the last thread but just wanted to pop on here to say that I've had a pleasant time imagining how much pressure Upton is going to be under to have excellent working relationships with his colleagues for the rest of his working life. And as he's about 30, he's got approx 30+ years to go. He must know that he's going to have a reputation for being difficult that will follow him wherever he goes and the onus is going to be on him to prove that he can be considerate towards others. I wonder if he'll explode...

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 24/07/2025 23:33

myplace · 24/07/2025 14:42

Do we know whether NDAs are applied disproportionately to women?

I was paid (a little) to accept one. They knew I was desperate for money to keep me afloat after redundancy, and that they hadn't followed a fair process. As far as I know, all the people made redundant were men.

KnottyAuty · 24/07/2025 23:34

Lins77 · 24/07/2025 23:10

Is the Guardian not covering this at all?

Apparently not?!
https://www.theguardian.com/society/transgender
Not a mention since 16th July - the lack of coverage was a major element in my peaking. Still can't believe it

Supporterofwomensrights · 24/07/2025 23:35

The Guardian knows that male women are much more important than female women.

KnottyAuty · 24/07/2025 23:35

SternJoyousBeev2 · 24/07/2025 23:20

Will the panel check out the document after JR claimed to quote from it or would it have been down to NC to refute JRs claims?

No idea. But the Panel took down the reference and presumably would have a look at it... maybe I have quoted the wrong reference but I couldn't see why JR would want them looking at this?

ILikeDungs · 24/07/2025 23:36

MyAmpleSheep · 24/07/2025 23:13

Is it true they eat each other? I heard that if you forget to feed them then you end up with just one chicken. And a lot of feathers.

Wouldn't know, I have never forgotten to feed them. They eat mice and frogs though (or try to) and LOVE noodles!

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