NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

I haven't seen anyone trying to ban anyone. Anyone who sees a post that they think may be libellous should report it. And anyone who posts here can't forbid anyone else from responding to it within guidelines.

It's not going to be too long before we see, if the mood/vibe check from here on proceedings is wildly out of line, with what Big Sond and the Paunel conclude.

We'll see soon enough.

I'd guess as usual it will be codified and wrapped in such dry legal language that it will be the Forans etc who interpret the nuances for the non legals. The one thing we will be able to understand is the numbers. Hopefully big numbers, fingers crossed, awarded to Wee Sondie.

Thesis embargos are requested by the author. In this case, judging by the abstract, there is probably a risk of the author being sued by persons mentioned in the thesis if it is put into the public domain.

I think it's good to stress-test what is said, to go back and check, and to avoid building on what has been said about the case rather than in the case.

They are two distinct processes.

They could open new investigations and rightly should against some employees who made false statements/ or failed to report patient safety concerns. Should also report to GMC.

Sandie's legal team must have worked late last night if Foran is correct.

Good morning! Happy Kate Searle day 🎄🎁🎄🎁

Excited to see what gifts are bestowed on us today.

Agreed. And you were right about the existence of the text message exchange, which I had entirely forgotten. I disagree with you on interpretation but you weren’t making them up, as was implied.

I CANT WAIT FOR FIFER’S COMMENTARY ON KS!!

Fifer : ah've cauncelt a big joab tae stay in the hoose fur this. Better be guid likes ken?

I agree with that. There can be a tendency for a narrative to take hold (here and elsewhere) which doesn't necessarily reflect the content of the case - such as that DU insisted on using a specifically nurses' changing room, when there's been evidence the room is used by doctors, nurses and support staff. (Which is irrelevant to the main issue anyway.)

Thank you BezMills for clearing today. I'm sure it will be worth it!

I’m guessing you are reporting quite a lot of the posts on this thread then?

The many that say things like this I presume?

”The harassment was all on his side, DEMANDING a women covered in menstrual blood, get naked in front of him, and reported her for waiting respectfully outside the room. He is a bigot, a bully, and a predator who harassed a very vulnerable female.”

Thank you x

Meanwhile Tunnock Brae ... (probably been posted before but it's worth a revisit).

You report what you think needs to be reported Tandora and the rest of us will do the same.

It's going to be AMAZING.

I think we are all a bit on edge this morning because of the anticipation of KS testimony and having to wait for it in a world of SM where we are so used to things moving much faster!!! No surprise really but it makes us much easier to goad, I think.

I was thinking about how some twitterers and netters are frustrated by the breaks. It’s hard to imagine how hard it is to concentrate on the detail as the panel have to do when you’re in that room. Part of the reason for J writing his own notes long hand are because that provides some time for cogitation that would be lost if using an app, say, or reviewing a recording.

You can see the positive result of that in his questions which he will be noting as he jots.

He’s also been cognisant of the stenographers labour and the stuffiness that has been reported of the room.

As the old adage goes: patience is a virtue, possess it if you can.

I am not doing a holier than thou! I myself am bursting with impatience.

That's interesting - I noticed the dramatic hand gestures as well. I wondered if it was to disperse anxiety or overcompensate.

This shows that organisations need to be careful. NHS Fife and the RCN thought they could bully and intimidate SP. She got back up and has kicked them well and truly in the balls. SPs actions have rippled world wide and people are backing her. The Scottish press are on board. All the irritating’up there own arses’ media ‘be kind’ lovies are quiet because no one is really interested in what they have to say. And some politicians are finally free of an ideology that is genuinely pissing off the bulk of the population.

And what exactly is wrong with any of that?

Fifer : aye nae pressure like ken. Yis aw need tae understaun the follayin to keep up wi the Neeborese.

"Ah deh aywis say "did ye aye" but when ah dae, it's cos ye didnae"

I dont know about that. The Phoenix and ERCC judgements were both pretty clear about what the judge thought of some participants.

If you report that Fife accused SP of bullying Upton, that is not libel. However, if you state as fact that SP bullied Upton, that could be libel. The question is whether it meets the "serious harm" test.

I think it will be ages before we get that. We have quite a few days left of the hearing then JR and NC will make there submissions ans it might be months after that before the panel’s judgement is published.