NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

The translation (IANAL so I believe it’s this) is that one common line of defence is that NHSF could say that they had the policy and they took all reasonable steps to get everyone to follow it, but this was all ignored by one (or more) rogue employees. So in this case they are confirming that they won’t blame DU.

TBH I think it would be difficult to claim all reasonable steps as there was no policy , a Schrödinger’s risk assessment, mystery dossiers, freely exchange tittle tattle…

Im wondering if there is a route out of this by DU because Fife are SO shambolic - shame that they’re paying for his defence tho is it it?

Good morning all. Wow just caught up on yesterday's shenanigans. All that from one witness!! I really don't know what to make of NHSF other than wtf! How were so many staff given freedom to go rogue? Is this due somewhat to old fashioned hierarchy amongst medical professionals? Will be fascinating to hear what Dr Searle has to say.

No I think she’s going to enjoy today. I hope I she’s sitting in KS’s line of vision and gives her a hard, unblinking stare the entire time. Well maybe an occasional smirk will be allowable.

Has anyone read this? It's about JR potential conflict of interest.

I'm not a subscriber but wondered if it had anything new to add?

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/jane-russell-sandie-peggie-tribunal-gcw3w2mqg

I don’t think LM has views that are opposite to GC. I think she seemed to be very much in the BeKind zone - but it was unusual to hear someone who is willing to extend that kindness to all parties.

TBH it’s not really very different to where most people start off is it - but in real life she’d be branded a bigot for those views because she agrees that women need a single sex space… so it will be interesting to see whether she moves further up the mountain… NC gave a nod to that “pathway” when she said “some of us have thought about this more than others”

First time since Friday I’ve properly caught up, albeit skim read as best I could.

Unless I’ve missed it, I can’t remember the 1992 workplace health and safety regs being brought up in the case. could the claimant also use that law as having been breached by NHSF (despite the fact that IIRC this law refers to men and women, not male/female sex).

OK people, what's the formatting trick to create super big font on here?

tell that to JR
And maybe do more research into the green party, specificallly the scottish greens, to get an understanding of why people on twitter are sharing this?

I'm not going to continue derailing on this, but I have no intention of meeting JR's level, nor do I need to do any further research. I already know enough to understand that these are women with worries and hopes and beliefs in the same way as me and anyone else. They are taking part in an employment tribunal, they are not here for our entertainment or research. I worry that online discussions get carried away and we miss the humanity. I wouldn't wish any of this on anyone, (yes of course, least of all SP).

@nauticant do you use your PMs?

Yes, I think it's a given that the way things are at the moment it's impossible to maintain any kind of middle ground if you're actively engaging in this issue.

You say something vaguely neutral and immediately get pounced on by the pronoun police. So then you either get back in your TWAW box or get chased higher and higher up that peak.

Ooo is Nauticant about to be let in on the secret of bigly letters (I am not privy to such magic).

It does look like that although I’m more inclined to think that after a weekend of disastrous public relations, NHS Fife comms team have continued their idiocy by advising those liaising with the legal team to instruct JR to draw out from LM the specific accusations to try and trigger some headlines.

Thankfully none of the mainstream paper seem to have fallen for it.

Not as a habit but if someone sends one I eventually notice it.

Maybe one day those bigly letters (autocorrect gave me bigot letters LOL) will be ours too @MagicSexEssence

You have a pm

Do we believe that anyone is instructing JR any more? Neither client is in the hearing…

By the power of Greyskull

I have the POWER!

I just had a flash of inspiration on how to do bigly letters, and it worked!

Looking forward to today, I hope NC hands KS her arse!

They are trying to show this wasn’t really about her being “intimidated” and she’s not a victim. She’s just a commonplace bigot, revelling in the opportunity to harass someone who‘s different to her in a way she can’t tolerate.

there was an article in the telegraph about it yesterday.

If we see attempts to derail could we minimise engagement with the derailers?

Thats not panning out to well for them given the evidence thats been heard… will be interesting to see what JR tries next. Not many options at this point - although I just can’t understand why she keeps calling witnesses…. Theres a whole week left of the hearing. Do the witnesses end on Friday or Monday?

I mean - she admitted on the stand she supports Trump.

Lol, but they cannot substantiate anything, so they look like pathetic mean girls trying to smear a decent nurse that they don't like.

Anyone calling SP a bigot has been unable to quote any evidence they have used in reaching this conclusion.

For those of us who don't just jump to conclusions from what the Daily Mail headlines say, things like "facts" and "truth" are quite important.

Oh well that settles it. So let the witch hunting commence. Am I right ladies?