NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

Thanks all, that’s good to hear. I can’t imagine anyone in a caring profession using the P* slur, that’s just horrendous, as is anti-gay abuse.

Does anyone know what Dr U did between leaving school after S6 in St Andrews in 2013 and starting his medical degree in 2016 at University of Dundee?

For example, was he employed somewhere in a care related job? Did he do a science degree at an English university? These would be popular choices for a prospective medical student who didn't get into medicine when applying straight from school . Or of course someone who decided to apply after working / studying in a related field.

That worked.

The closest thing to racist comments are supposedly to do with moaning about smelly food.
But really lots of food can be smelly, so its a bit of a jump to say because someone objects to smelly food they are racist.

Nothing can stink more than a kipper!

Nobody seems to have heard these comments first hand as NC so as says - its tittle tattle - gossip designed to discredit SP. Make her look small minded to other cultures and sexualitys.

Reality she just doesn't want to share a tiny open plan changing room with a bloke.

This is one of the difficult aspects for me about the case, it's riveting to read along to TT and jumping in with observations and conjectures helps me put the pieces together, but everything I say is totally wild speculation and I feel like I need to add paragraph disclaimer to not take anything I say about the direction of the case seriously 😅 there's so much I don't know and can't know.

From google:

The Equality Act 2010 includes a defense for employers against liability for employee discrimination if they can prove they took "all reasonable steps" to prevent the discriminatory act. This defense means an employer may not be held responsible for an employee's discriminatory actions if they can demonstrate they made a genuine effort to prevent such behavior. The "all reasonable steps" defense is relevant when one employee discriminates against another, and the employer is typically held vicariously liable for the employee's actions during their employment.

Section 109(4) is the relevant section. 109 is the bit that dictates employers are liable for the acts of their employees in this context.

As reported earlier . . .
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34?page=10&reply=145846159

Update on Loch Ness Monster eating NHS Fife's EIA!! 🤭

(Getting a bit hooked on this AI magic!)

Maya Forstater did a Citizen's Arrest on the Loch Ness Monster and made it cough up NHS Fife's Equality Impact Assessment on letting men who call themselves women use the Female Nurses Changing Room:

• PC Sex (women): 🖕
• PC Religion: 🖕
• VAWG: 🖕
• EA2010: 🖕

Someone mentioned a while back that they thought JR has thrown her lot in with Dr Upton and has left NHS Fife flailing.

Her peculiar questioning of CM, raising unsubstantiated racism and homophobic tittle tattle makes sense if she has decided to throw one client under the bus to protect the other.

I think she is trying to protect Dr Upton something like this- the poor wee lady just wanted to secure her human right to whip her dick out in front of nurses and hasn’t wavered from this, it’s not his fault if the incompetent NHS Fifers went too far and made shit up and persecuted Sandie with false allegations. His position remained unchanged and he wasn’t involved in the massive investigation cock up.

I would also love to know if some of the Fife handmaidens went in so hard for Upton because they feared they had infractions recorded in his little phone note book.

Dr Searle is in a tight spot tomorrow -

GMC duties include

Colleagues, culture and safety

• Treat people with respect and help to create a working and training environment that is compassionate, supportive and fair, where everyone feels safe to ask questions, talk about errors and raise concerns.
• Act promptly if you think that patient safety or dignity may be seriously compromised.

Trust and professionalism

• Act with honesty and integrity, and be open if things go wrong.
• Never unfairly discriminate against patients or colleagues.

This isn’t just about her bullying and maligning a nurse that raised concerns about lack of single sex changing rooms - she either supported falsified patient safety concerns or failed to act promptly to deal with the patient safety so breached her GMC duties as highlighted by Lottie Myles.

She discriminated against Sandie as she didn’t bother to get any verification of DrUs version of events. In emailing all and sundry on the basis of false testimony she failed to act with honesty and integrity.

She should be reported to the GMC herself and have a case to answer for enabling DrUs lies / misinformation and being so vindictive toward Sandie.

And forensic phone investigator man.

I’m like a kid on Christmas Eve.

WIDE AWAKE.

GO BACK TO SLEEP, it’s too early. You’ll be sorry later when you’re cranky & swivel eyed with tiredness!

Orchestra is tuning up for Darth Vader’s Imperial March.

After all the anticipation, I hope this doesn't turn out to be a damp squib.

Bookmarks are broken for some people in some browsers right now. Safari is a no for me, but Opera is working.

Excited for today, too, and I won't get a chance to catch up until this evening.

It must be hell for Sandie sitting through all of this. However, she has a crack team on her side and of course the vipers (and anyone else with a modicum of common sense and decency). I hope that is buoying her up!

Why do they think that they’ll finish with KS before the end of the day? Unless NC goes with “You’ll agree with me I’m sure that you wrote these emails? Yes? Yes. No further questions. I rest my case m’lud.” surely the grilling will continue in to tomorrow?

I defer to @prh47bridge but I have never heard the particulars of claim read out at the beginning of the full merits hearing. I’ve seen it because it is in the bundle and it is accurately described in this thread. Also a synopsis is in one of the case management orders. We fought to have to right to publish those as it seemed that issues that would have been judgments and therefore public were being dealt with by ‘orders’ which can be kept private.

I’m very much looking forward to the judgment in this case when that day arrives. It’s going to be littered with withering comments from the judge about the behaviour of NHSF. I don’t think there is any way around it.

I really enjoy that reading between the lines of what a judge says and what they really mean.

I have never heard the particulars of claim read out at the beginning of the full merits hearing

Nor have I.

I can imagine, that if Sandie did in some way speak about her daughter being Lesbian that any concerns she might have would be for her daughter's welfare, rather than against single-sex attracted persons. I know that I for one would be worried about a child of mine, but only in that being gay or lesbian is not always easy and can bring challenges. It was very low of JR to try and drive a wedge between Sandie and her daughter. It was spiteful and unnecessary.

woke up to posts on twitter saying that Lottie Myles is/was a green party candidate in England (where she's originally from) and described herself as pansexual. So not quite a better witness than the rest then?

As for Kate Searle, if she's Scottish, then the national records indicate she's 43

Yes, the bookmark on a post takes you straight to that post when you return to a thread. A new bookmark replaces the previous bookmark. One of the main reasons I registered as a user during part 1. Works fine in Chrome.

woke up to posts on twitter saying that Lottie Myles is/was a green party candidate in England (where she's originally from) and described herself as pansexual. So not quite a better witness than the rest then?

I don’t really see a problem with either of those things. This is an employment tribunal, not a character assassination.

I think it shows that it is possible for someone to hold [what's the opposite of GC?] beliefs and still treat someone with GC beliefs with respect and fairness.

I've no hope of following today disappointingly.

tell that to JR
And maybe do more research into the green party, specificallly the scottish greens, to get an understanding of why people on twitter are sharing this?