NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

My prediction is that NC will not be asking CM if she knows what her own sex is.

So employing the old belt, braces, life jacket and fire retardant clothing approach? Probably wise, but remembering that this was questioning by the friendlies and she still has to face the wicked SexMatters team hiding behind their anonymity and pretending to be innocent barristers etc , I would probably, in her steelcapped shoes, ask that the proceedings be moved to the car park so that I could sit in my tank.

But JR might.

Is this the first time we're hearing allegations of SP being racist towards a DOCTOR?!!

What I don’t understand is that clearly to work as a senior HCP, you’d need to understand how important it is to be precise and accurate about things.

Why did ED and KS think wishy-washy, vague accusations with no direct quote, no times, no dates and no witness statements would fly with LM?

I thought the vague racist reference was about food. But as it probably never happened, it was unclear.

Interestingly as well CM is the one to raise that other staff aren't happy with Sandie coming back to work. She is throwing them under the bus.

just reading TT makes me horrified at what SP went through. All these people ganging up on her and spreading rumours and not a bit of hard evidence.

They were most likely enraged by moral righteousness and the thinking parts of the brains weren't in control.

To be fair, it sounds like she also made her feelings known at the time. She seems to have been playing off a straight bat throughout.

Catching up, from TT

CM: I asked whether formally reported, KS said no, I said then KS culpable for not reporting
NC: What did KS say to that?
CM: Nothing.

It's sounding like it

KS is gonna put CM at the top of her Grudge List after this.

CM: No not really - as I said at that time there was no real evidence, only s/he said s/he said. Still Qs about NMC code - will expand further -
CM: When I told dept SP was returning, some staff not happy.
NC: Who?
CM: ED, LC, KS [+another]
NC: How did they express?
CM: Phone conv - ED and LC on speakerphone, said it was the wrong decision, I said, it was my decision -

And

CM: I asked whether formally reported, KS said no, I said then KS culpable for not reporting
NC: What did KS say to that?
CM: Nothing.

And there you have it. A small group of Upton's people (note Upton sought them out) had it in for Peggie from the word go. They didn't go procedure and didn't like it when told they weren't going about things correctly. They were warned there was risk involved regarding their own behaviour and there was a clear case of trying to influence the decision both before AND after the suspension.

They made it very clear they were unhappy with the decision made. Thus making it potentially difficult for staff who were either impartial or supported Peggie.

If you are trying to influence a decision like this, by saying things like 'wrong decision', you are at significant rosk of being accused of harassment.

Here we have a member of staff effectively backing up Sandie's position and very firmly putting the Flying Monkeys in the firing line.

No wonder Peggie's side wanted Searle added to the list of those who were being held responsible. Kate Searle has so far completely dodged a bullet.

She's up tomorrow isn't she? I'm expecting tears tbh.

I needed a cigarette after reading that. I don’t smoke.

All the discussion about helping Sandie back to work has reminded me, about a million years ago as a young and naive worker recovering from a breakdown, I had to change in a women’s changing room occupied by a man. Because I was placed in a different role. It didn’t help my recovery. ( not N H S)

CM is sounding like the only adult on the management team.

Don't you just love it when a defence witness goes nuclear?

Am I right in thinking that nobody investigated claims that SP was homophobic and racist - only the CR incident and the claims about dangerous practice?

From TT

NC: 12/3 told SP re revoking -
JR: told at meeting, confirmed 12/3
NC: Yes, thank you. Then we have the risk assessment form is dated [missed
NC: And then later, after the meeting, Angela Glancy sent you background paperwork. You hadn't seen it before but it was this that led you to complete the form? [ref] Bcs you fill in the 'background' info on form - was from GM and AG?
CM: Yes correct
NC: You say, no mention of derogatory terminology, only SP not accepting DU to be female. You say "from the statement" - is that the doc at 779? This is part of the doc AG sent you 10/4?
CM: Yes
NC: You'd read this document - headed 'hate incident' - it's what you refer to as 'from the statement'?
CM: I am not sure - I was also left a print version on my desk which had a brief summary and of the Datix - some of this is not familiar when I had mtg with SP.
NC: When you say 'from the statement' - you are referring to something other than 'hate incident' doc?
CM: Yes I think I was working from a summary.
NC: [ref] - is this what you mean?
CM: Yes that's it. From the Datix.
NC: So you say 'no derogatory language mentioned, only SP not accepting DU female. If we look at it - p 634 - written in quite tendentious terms.

Fifer : NC's jist drappin 'tendentious' oot there, like it's a word that's even been heard in Dundee before. Aye we aw ken yer clivir! Nae need tae blaw aboot the big words. Whit does it mean, fucked if ah ken, ken?

NC: Says Nurse A accosted Dr B, [very fast summary - cannot get most] - says aggressive and confrontational manner by SP
NC: I know this is a while ago but if you look back at p308 - you say no mention of derogatory language. There are 2 candidates for what you mean by "the statement" - one is the Datix, and one is the 'hate incident' doc.

Thats fine.

KS is unlikely to still be working at NHS Fife too much longer I suspect.

I'm not going to say anything extra than that has been reported by TT but I think it is safe to say that from the previous session on, CM has appeared, IMO, very thorough and straightforward and likely candid in responses, and from the view of the court room, she has looked very organised and familiar with the bundle.

CM: I asked whether formally reported, KS said no, I said then KS culpable for not reporting

Good that this question has finally answered - other witnesses have been very vague!

I believe so. And I'd guess that those comments, never pursued, were raised after the cr incident to sling more mud.

She went there