NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

She's an experienced A&E nurse. She must have vast experience at holding her shit together in the worst possible circumstances.

I take back what I said earlier about a second career if she doesn't want to go back to nursing. Assuming she wins this tribunal, as well as suing the scrubs off the RCN I hope she does put in a grievance against him and KS to NHSF, along with a concern to the GMC.
She's not going to have time to go back!

Haha.

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic they feel they pass as female (and indeed they believe they are female) so refuse to do anything that even hints that they are not. So they are saying it will out them but what they really mean is that they will miss out the variation of using female facilities

If this was from last week, imagine the scenes now.

https://x.com/boswelltoday/status/1945144408103346335

A health board spokesperson said: “The section of our previously issued statement relating to the involvement of Sex Matters in the case has been removed. This decision was made following discussion with the claimant’s legal team. This should allow the tribunal to proceed as per the original schedule when it resumes on Monday.”

This quote upthread from Fife Today (date?) suggests that this has been resolved/parked, at least for the time being, and the case can continue on Monday without further diversion. Sex Matters/ NC/MF will be able to revisit it if they want to but I'm sure their priority at the moment is Sandie's case and getting the remaining witnesses before the judge in the limited time available.

"Mixed sex" loos have to be single lockable rooms, with a basin in. No validation there. No demanding to share the space with women.

Tbh I gave birth to one (well obviously he wasn't trans-identifying when he popped out) but anyhoo, much as I love my DC, I do not want to strip off in front of my DC and I don't expect any other woman who's not DC's partner to want to do that either.

Oh I feel silly now. I was getting muddled up with cervical spine. Nevermind

Especially someone who regularly faces horrors in their job. Sandie has 30 years as a nurse, she works in A&E she will have seen pretty much every horror imaginable. She will have seen children pulled from car wreaks when here own kids were little, dealt with people with illnesses her own loved ones are fighting, wrangled drunks and criminals and arseholes who hurled abuse at her and she had to set any emotions that generated in her aside so she could carry on with her job. To be good at her job she had to be unemotional, it's a strength in that type of role not a failing. The Couriers bits from the bundle on the investigation quote Sandie says she knuckled down and finished her shift until she go home and load to her family. She knows her emotions don't belong in A&E she recognises that the world doesn't rotate about her axis.

Date: Published 19th Jul 2025, 10:54 BST
Updated 20th Jul 2025, 10:15 BST

I took it as more that had Sandie had an visible emotional response (and I wouldn't have blamed her in the slightest if she had) that going off the evidence, she couldn't have expected any sort of sympathetic response from senior staff, whereas they couldn't have been more coddling when faced with Upton's emotional response.

It's the difference in support which is what is being criticised. No one appears to have even said to Sandie 'you alright?'

There are lots like that.

Boswell on Upton
‘I’ve also heard he is pretty unbearable to work with. Trans this, trans that - all day long. Loves his ‘rights’ does this fella.’

It's a basic thing of treat people as you'd want to be treated yourself.
What we seem to have here is a whole hencote full of headless chickens running around in a panic because it's a trans person who has made a complaint, and we can't say anything against them or it'll be us next in the firing line. I wonder how KS would have responded had it been Sandie who sought her out and complained? Probably similar headless chicken stuff because it was a trans person being complained about, only Sandie would have been given a brush and told to sweep while KS held up the carpet for her to sweep it all under.
I've found the discussion about peaking fascinating. My other half has been incandescent about this direction of travel for about 2 years now. I couldn't understand the fuss. I feel like I've been rescued from down a mine by a search & rescue helicopter and plonked on the top of Ben Nevis about a week ago. I finally understand why she's so angry about it all, my anger is rapidly catching up, I have a huge desire to bunk off work next week to be able to keep up with this thread to follow the case because it's got me hooked.

Well, DrU has a neck all right. A hard one, or a brass one, depending on your local saying.
Where I'm from he has 'A hard neck, tha' eejit'

@NebulousDog I'm playing catch up, apologies if its been said. A junior doctor ought to know Kate Searle, as a senior consultant, was unlikely to be there Christmas Eve, that was reserved for the younger Dr Pitt. Strangely none of the nursing staff reported this distressed doctor to their line manager, so yes the tears were probably fake reserved for another doctor. While that doctor acted quite properly she would have lived through covid in a&e and maybe ICU, I can imagine what she was really thinking of someone collapsing in tears over hurty words. Walking him to his car was a way of getting him off her back so she could home.

I’m probably using the wrong term here, but weren’t they “performing animals” from a friend’s film animal co? They are presumably used to unexpected bangs and crashes (remember those bloodstained cavalry horses that bolted all along the Strand?).

Scotland’s Auditor may also do his own investigation.

‘Last night, Mr Boyle - who assesses public bodies’ value for money as well as their governance structures and accountability - said he would make a decision on whether to probe NHS Fife after his auditors complete their usual reports.
Asked about the use of taxpayer funds to pay for legal costs relating to the tribunal so far, Mr Boyle said he understood why the public might be concerned over the spending.’

Serves Paula venells Carol spotter right. There has to be some accountability for Fife mismanagement.

@Lins77 I remember googling for Sandie when this began. There was a glowing review from a patient about the care she had received from Sandie. So she may have looked stern at times - and she'd need to be to run a busy a&e - but she could obviously also be caring with the patients. Doubt I could find it again now there are millions of other google hits though.

Agree. Can only see one office in the opposite direction of the nearest exit. If I was that upset and scared I’d have run for the nearest exit.

Courier article here
https://archive.is/YKBYt

https://x.com/rogerlwhite/status/1946359429210800580

resign Paula Carol and Neil

@Neverflyingagain that's interesting. I have been all in for such a long time now. I remember many odd moments of ‘surely this will make everyone realise….’ and in fact people carried on managing not to notice the problem.

I was here when we got excited about JKR, then disappointed when she rowed back momentarily. Pippa Bunce being a top 100 women in the city (but only part time). When Laurel Hubbard started the mucking about and I understood that it wasn’t just one women he’d pushed out, but everyone below him moves down a space. Rachel McKinnon the man mountain who became Veronica Ivy… Various terrifying trans sex offenders given repeated opportunities to offend.

Each time I thought, surely now it will be obvious this can’t carry on?!

And here we are, finally, due to the hard work of a host of phenomenal women. The whole of the UK looking on in horror. Go Sandie!

Press page.

All archive links.

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/press-coverage-s-peggie-v-fife-health?r=1gxdhb