NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

I have been attending in person and there is no general public access to the room in which the hearing is held. Everyone who is in the hearing room is involved in the case /known to the parties.

Even the tiny 20 person observation room is packed with supporters of the claimant, there are several locked doors to get through, security checks before they get in the room and plenty security staff.

So I don't see how an unhinged person would even get into the reception area, let alone into the hearing room .

I found a link by going to tribunaltweets.substack.com that opened for me

You would think any half decent lawyer would spot it but I've come across plenty who seem to think a libel has to be intentional and that 'I didn't mean my words to mean what you understood them to mean' is a good defence.

It's not. A libel is a libel whether you meant your words to be understood that way or not. That's why it's not a good idea to include all sorts of stuff (even if true or factual) in your insanely long and bitter press release. Some readers will put 2 and 2 together and make 5. This explains why Fife added the clarification that they didn't mean to pass any slur on SM.

Tbf libel is very specialist. But a good lawyer knows what they don't know.

Oh wow do you get to see the proceedings on a screen?

Back together film.... I think Emma Watson has aged out of playing Isla Bumba. Maybe play KS? I'm sure she would want a part as defence to show she is on the right side of history.

Ah, the joys of biting the chocolate off a teacake without disturbing the marshmallow. Haven't tried that for years. Must have another go.

I have, also. And yes, dynamite!

Probably already been said but compensation needs to restore her financial position to what it would have been had all this not happened. So it should include antisocial hours allowance, higher rate tax because she's going to get hit with a massive tax bill that probably wouldn't have been the case if working normally etc.

It’s text rather than a direct quotation.

“An NHS Fife spokesman says its legal representatives approved the 1,700-word intervention, which is expected to be discussed again at the tribunal on Monday.”

N0TfunnySo I don't see how an unhinged person would even get into the reception area, let alone into the hearing room .

It looks like flashing an' Employee of NHS Fife' badge has worked for a few of them😄

Sorry some of this is not what was covered in part 1 evidence. Upton was not lurking in the toilets waiting for Sandie.

Reddit might have loads of false stuff on there but can we please try to stick to evidence based stuff here on mn.

Do read the TT transcripts for DU’s evidence. Very worthwhile- better than Reddit!

They sound like what we would once have called "troublemakers".

He's really stepped up the bizarre statements in the last few days. He's actually genuinely concerning..

Yes, it is text rather than a direct quotation. So it doesn't prove anything either way. They could both be misusing the term. Or one of them. We don't know.

Ooh yes - do you this one is accurate?

https://www.nes.scot.nhs.uk/media/vdsbmvxk/194-x-marks-the-abg-machine.pdf

My gut feeling is that she's going to be holding her head high and going back to her job that she was doing before all this blew up, because it's about the patients and doing right by them. They should have a whole band of pipers to play her in on the first shift back.

Whatever her longer term plans I sincerely hope she goes back and stares Kate Searle and others who cold shouldered her in the eye and enjoys a full on Julia Roberts/Pretty Woman "BIG MISTAKE" moment. She should probably struggle through the doors lugging several huge sacks of fan mail/ best wishes/Good luck/Thank you for taking one for the team cards and tip the whole lot out on the floor in the middle of the staff room.

Re the Courier article: If you turn off your wifi at just the right moment, the page-hiding widget doesn't load. I won't quote the whole article, for copyright reasons, but here is an excerpt, for which I claim the "fair dealing" exception:

One senior source, speaking on condition of anonymity, says they have concluded Ms Potter must quit over the fallout.

NHS Fife chief’s position ‘not tenable’
“I find this hard to say, but yes, unfortunately the responsibility for this stops with the chief executive. Her position is not tenable,” they said.

Another current staff member echoed this view.

They told us: “I don’t think she has any choice.

“We are facing so much criticism and [Carol Potter] staying in post after overseeing this is a distraction.”

and:

But the NHS Fife manager says some employees feel let down and exposed should a similar case arise.
They said: “The evidence of [the equality and diversity lead] was shocking.
“I know many managers are terrified of a similar situation [a row that potentially leads to another tribunal].”

Yup, that Russell and his (IMHO) inept government who wouldn’t release grain to feed the people because they’d lose money 🤬

Also I wonder when Sandie first got to see Kate Searle's email, after Naomi had extracted it. If she had ever had doubts and thoughts of settling the action, I imagine they evaporated in a puff of purple smoke. I hope she is enjoying seeing all those colleagues she has worked with for years being put on the spot in the witness box and is looking forward to seeing KS be eviscerated as much as we all are.

Love that.

i took the Sandy Peggie express - totally clueless until I clicked Thread #6 at the top of “Active” during a February coffee break.

Can I be on a peak and down a rabbit hole at the same time? Apparently yes!

I’ve worked as a manager in A&E and I frequently worked with the consultants to sort out replies to complaints, generally from patients and their families, sometimes staff. And also dealt with complaints in other sectors. You learn v v quickly not to automatically accept what is stated in the complaint is necessarily correct or the full story, you have to investigate. And even if you fully accept that it is true, or v likely to be true, you caveat everything in writing with ‘alleged’ until investigations are complete. I find it strange that a fairly senior consultant wouldn’t know that.

@viques off the back of this thread I splashed out on a “Sharing Bag” of Maltesers with today’s Ocado order. They were supposed to sustain me next week, but I feel up to the challenge of dismantling a teacake with “no hands”.

Spotted them, curious as to where the consultant room is in comparison given DrU had to run around for half an hour to find ?dr Pitt. I can see the junior doctor quiet room and a handover room literally a few rooms away…

Why not pay The Courier £1 for 3 months access? After all they put in a LOT of effort for that article.

I have been feeling increasingly sad for Sandie, because although things are reaching a very well-deserved climax for the Fife Board, the organisational smear campaign that was authorised and organised to take place immediately after clearing her from the misconduct charges, must make it feel really difficult if not impossible ever to go back to the workplace that she loved for decades, even if she wanted to.

I imagine that large numbers of staff will feel insecure for a long time, because they know that if their employer turns on them, they would likely be severely punished even for seeking to clear their own name.

What vile and unconscionable behaviour from everyone concerned.

I do hope there is some small comfort in seeing the Chief Executive being publicly called to resign as an immediate consequence of the actual bullying that has gone on towards Sandie.