NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

I'm two threads behind still reading Friday afternoon's TTs and embellishments, but I have this as an earworm now and thought it'd be a gentle Sunday accompaniment to the threads.

I have 😀

Excellent!

The Courier article doesn't say it was 'signed off' by the board. It only refers to legal representatives. We don't know which, if any, members of the board saw or approved it. That said, the board is the body which is collectively responsible for it and any buck stops ultimately with the chair.

Yeah, sorry about the confusion there, I archived a different story. I tried with the correct one, but, like PP found, it didn't seem to want to play ball.

As usual I am well behind, but just adding from Fife Today:

[NHS Fife's statement] quickly became a PR car crash as politicians, commentators and a number of groups all responded with sharp criticism.

David Hamilton, Scotland’s Information Commissioner, attacked its “petulant tone” and said he would investigate whether it amounted to contempt in relation to assurances given to him regarding Freedom of Information (FOI) compliance. He said: “The petulant tone of NHS Fife’s latest statement is quite remarkable, but it is the content that concerns me most.”

An attack on Sex Matters - the campaign group which is supporting Ms Peggie’s case - also backfired.

While the board said it was restricted in what it can and cannot say publicly, its first statement singled out the group for criticism, suggesting it had “steered public opinion” - in the same paragraph it highlighted "unacceptable personal attacks and trolling on social media" with a threat of physical harm and sexual violence leading to police involvement.

The amended statement said: “ To be clear NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that anyone involved with Sex Matters have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above.”

A health board spokesperson said: “The section of our previously issued statement relating to the involvement of Sex Matters in the case has been removed. This decision was made following discussion with the claimant’s legal team. This should allow the tribunal to proceed as per the original schedule when it resumes on Monday.”

Maya Forrester (sic), chief executive of Sex Matters, described the statement as an “extraordinary intervention - even by the board’s standards” and added: “NHS Fife has dug itself into a reputational black hole. If the only way forward the board can see is to lash out, criticising Sex Matters, which has, at all times acted with proprietary and in pursuit of its charitable objectives, that suggests desperation.”

My bold.

I've just been reading the February transcripts and I had to laugh when Esther Davidson described Sandie's usual demeanour as quite "stern". I have a family member, who also happens to be a nurse, who is a lovely person but does have a permanent air of ferocity about her.

"Monroe Bergdorf was today appointed as the new CEO of NHS Fife, following Carol Potter's resignation...."

I think the website crashed because of all the frantic clicking. Also if people have a browser extension for the archive site, its easy to request another archive by mistake instead of going to the link. So between people trying to subscribe and others trying to archive, everything went blank for a short while.

Totally agree all the newspapers deserve a flurry of new subscriptions. I expect a lot of people may be using public wifi while out for the day and may not want or be in a position to make financial transactions without a faff, but I really hope the smaller Scottish press gets a windfall from the net interest in the case!

I almost believed that for a moment and tried to click it 🤣

Because nothing those clowns do now seems too ridiculous!!

On Christmas Eve, was Sandie mid-shift when both were in the changing room?

From what I recall, Upton flailed around A&E, looking for Kate Searle for quite a while (maybe she had hidden under a desk).

Surely somebody else would have noticed the floods of lady-tears?

Just seen one of his tweets where he says he's more typical of a women than Maya Forstater, Helen Joyce and Helen Stanisland because he likes fashion, make up and love island

In another tweet he told JKR that he is more of a woman than she will ever be. Deranged.

Liberal left males don't need to value equality as highly as females as they hold higher social status and don't see the problems as quickly or easily as they are unaffected.

It's worse than that as he is one of the few remaining hereditary peers still sitting in the House of Lords. He took part in the TRA demo in Parliament Square after the Supreme Court ruling.

I imagine the Dr was stunningly brave and held back the tears until he reached a safe space, a sympathetic ear and a box of mansized Tissues.

That's what I recall. I'm sure she went back out to work after the 'incident' and got on with it.

Righty misogynists think women are private property, lefty ones think they're public property. It's an easy way for a certain kind of man to get credit for being all progressive and liberal while stomping all over women and rights that don't affect him.

I've actually been thinking about that (not nurses but that general air of ferocity) today. In my first office job, the janny was a bit scary (to me). Very straight talking, took no shit, very capable and experienced. Possibly Sandie gave off the same type of vibe which is probably why people who were a bit shit at their jobs had a wee mutter to themselves.

But by God, my janny was the one to turn to if you fucked up or needed help to sort something. He would go out his way to help you, without fuss and he got me out of a bind so many times.

AAh yes- and in her response JKR replied simply with ;

'Citation needed'.

I think of that sometimes when I need cheering up.

Seen on X “Dr Uptonogood” 🤣🤣

Well you'd think someone would notice him walloping about.
He's not exactly a wee moose.

There again 12pm Christmas Eve in A&E I imagine you'll have a mishmash of drunks and folk panicking about the GPs being shut for 2 days. So folk would have been kinda busy.

I'm very female. No mistaking it. I have similar issues to Sandie, blooming menopause etc
We also have gender neutral toilets at work which happen to be twice as big because they are also disabled toilets ... Anyhoo, I tend to use those ones because they're bigger and the sink is bigger too. I'd not thought about trans colleagues feeling unable to use them. That's a major issue.

Christmas Eve he did a circuit of the entire A&E for Elspeth Pitt before finding her back just 30s from where he started out, looking pale, startled and sobbing.

28th Feb he put on big girl pants and did another circuit before sobbing again on Kate Searle, but this time around the scrubs store (twice) and plaster room, while wearing his big girl socks.

A&E nurses - good, experienced ones - are necessarily stern. They have seen EVERYTHING and have solved every problem. As a junior doc in A&E, I foubd them intimidating and absolutely reliable and supportive. I have always said that if apocalypse was to strike, I want an A&E nurse on my team.

Thankyou to all the mumsnetters holding these threads together. I have been keeping up with difficulty. All hail the great Sandie, peaking Scotland and beyond - I hope she is bearing up under the weight of our hopes and well wishes.