NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #32

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31

@INeedAPensieveTo ‘get a dent in their popularity’ sounds like a physical injury! 😂

I know what I’d like to do! Give ‘em a good ol’ dent in the popularity, I would!

Question - if SP was accused of gross misconduct on the basis of no facts, will DU & KS be put through disciplinary proceedings for their unproven accusations and malicious emails?

ETA as evidenced by the tribunal bundle etc

Ooh scorching. “We deeply regret your innocence but think you should think long and hard about the behaviour which caused us to persecute you”.

The rot that led to the Sandie Peggie case goes right to the top

https://www.thetimes.com/article/60b6b218-7b8a-4225-9f51-db41382866a2?shareToken=ce95f2b29551e560113843c143120f89

The Claimant would go to town with uncontested closing submissions which would be massively advantageous for that side.

They don't have the power to end the tribunal because:

(1) Sandie is bringing the claim and doesn't have to settle. This is the thing NHS Fife emphasised until today. While it's true that Sandie diesn't have to settle out of court, Fife could decline to bring more witnesses, and the case could move to Sandie's team to bring final witnesses & make submissions.

But today's statement also noted indirectly that:

(2) Dr Upton is also a Respondent who shares the same barrister. Fife emphasised today that Fife cannot unilaterally make a decision on their next move. Which implicates Upton as the main reason for Fife to continue calling witnesses.

It possibly makes sense for Upton to want Fife to be implicated as much as possible for process failures at this point, so that if/when he faces gross misconduct/fitness to practice charges over the 'patient safety' claims, he can claim in part that he was only doing what Fife supported him to do.

In a separate section, Fife also noted that "While the claimant raised concerns about a trans woman’s use of a locker room, this was not the reason that NHS Fife’s internal investigation was initiated. As made clear during tribunal proceedings, the disciplinary process was initiated due to concerns raised about interactions with a colleague and patient care."

My bolding on the passive voice that actually very clearly points again to Upton as the person who raised the claims that have finally been dismissed.

I agree with posts above that the statement has all the hallmarks of a document that has been edited by multiple contributors. Given the 'petulant' comments about the Info Commissioner, I wonder if the same Info Governance person, whose draft was sent out accidentally last week, also had a hand in today's debacle?

Oi NHS Fife - look at Northumbria Police - this is what you should have done! They’ve just capitulated at a pre-action letter and no one’s even notice because of your absolute bin fire of a case
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/1288f825f6c6a9ae

I suspect that KS will move on, as it were. It is a rare thing for folk like her to face any consequences but in any other circumstances that letter would lose them this case. In this there are so many other points of failure that it can’t be wholly blamed.

I agree with her about that. But she wasn't my favourite person earlier this week when she complained about not being able to get online access to the tribunal because of who she was. That rather stank of "do you know who I am" - answer: yes, but you had to join the queue like everyone else to be an observer, rather than journalist (with full credentials). Hope she's calmed down.

The Times article is good. Clear and without testeria. Yay.

Sounds brilliant 😂

Yes. What is Neil Gray up to? Where is John Swinney?

The fact they haven't stepped in is making them look like the biggest idiots of all.

@CarefulN0w Thanks for the share, another great piece. It highlighted this bit for me too: the email from KS to a bunch of consultants pre-investigation: “we all support her and condemn the actions of Sandie”. In all the excitement of today, having to work and look after my own children (!), I had missed it. We all knew the emails would be damning but my goodness me that is awful. Do they not give them any training for these roles? Or do they all just think that because they're big clever doctors they can manage with ease?

I'm not sure if this has been made clear yet, but there's no way NHS Fife can give in on this tribunal. They will not just lose the £25k capped payment to Sandie, they will also have to pay out unlimited amounts when she moves on to sue them in the civil courts. Which I hope she does, and yet its bloody tax payers money, not the individuals responsible!!

I missed that. Yes, it really doesn't come across well.

@Largesso I have wondered if Sandie / lawyers are planning to raise a formal grievance within NHS Fife against any of the staff members. After the trial with the transcript. There are grounds for based on i.e. spreading a rumour of her being racist and other bullying behaviours. Any complaint NHS Fife would have to investigate appropriately or risk another tribunal.

I was getting all smug about finally catching up, then realised the thread I was on was full, and another had started....

Thanks as always for the commentary and insights. I'm away this weekend, and out on Monday, but will try to not fall massively behind. I fear I may have to skip entire threads! 😀

I've spent all evening trying to catch up. Jaw dropping stuff. I saw the NHS Fife statement archived on X, I don't know how anyone could keep a straight face whilst writing all that : eg "An internal disciplinary investigation is not of itself punitive in nature and exists to fairly assess concerns raised by establishing facts". Nothing punitive about suspending Sandie before anyone had even heard her side of the story of course, let alone establishing the facts.

I have the archive link if anyone wants to see it.

Will hopefully be able to keep abreast of the action on Monday and Tuesday days off. Do we know when/if Kate Searle will be in the witness box? 🤞 for early in the week.

Thanks to whoever on X took the precaution to save it.

archive.is/2025.07.18-143100/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/

They don’t always get any training. But sounds captured

There must be a word for that fear that grips you when you realise you're several threads down and it's going to take an age to catch up.

Threadpidation?

Just re-posting for gardening duties.

This was decided a while back. KS has not been added as a named respondent, which was unsurprising. Asking to add a respondent halfway through the case was always a stretch.

The tribunal did not order a forensic examination of Upton's phone because they don't think they have the power to make such an order and, even if they did, there didn't appear to be any need as the respondents were providing the phone voluntarily. A news outlet has reported that we will be hearing from an additional witness who is an expert in forensic examination of phones. We don't know for sure, but it seems likely that he has been called by SP's lawyers to tell us what he found on Upton's phone.

Where's the laughing reaction when you need it?!

Great, thank you!