NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #32

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31

Sandie Peggie can't give up because of the massive damage inflicted on her by NHS Fife and the gruesome cabal of (some) staff members there.

NHS Fife could give up by conceding massively to Sandie Peggie to mitigate to a sufficient degree the damage they've inflicted on her. They'd have to stump up a massive amount of money and concede a great deal.

However, I don't think that NHS Fife would be willing to give up in this way. They'd have to reject gender identity ideology and I think that's just not possible for them.

To complicate this even further, even if a a settlement between Sandie Peggie and NHS Fife could be arranged, NHS Fife are running a joint defence with Dr Upton and they'd have to throw him under the bus. If they did so there's a likelihood that he would sue them and, in addition, the maddest gender loons in the UK, and possibly abroad too, would launch a gender jihad against NHS Fife.

@TeenToTwenties thanks. Hard to keep track of what is real and what is (really, really bad) PR, eh?

Yes I was wondering that, albeit I’m not particularly clued up on litigation strategy. They can withdraw their response to the claim surely, but I think the problem is the intertwining with Upton.

Agreed. However, the reverence accorded to Taylor vs Jaguar Land Rover Ltd as a “landmark case”would easily convince people otherwise.

So clusterfuck is accurate then.

Surely it was a huge mistake to have the same defence as BU - were they just really confident that SP was going to lose? Can they switch defence now?

I can't genuinely fathom how grown adults would ever think it that a man should be allowed into a female changing room, and noone was going to do anything.

Well, I have set up a monthly donation to Sex Matters. I bet (and sincerely hope) their donations have jumped this week!

I don't understand why Upton is still employed by Fife - junior clinical fellow posts don't usually just keep on rolling on for years, his contract must have been renewed more than once by now. I wonder if they are too scared of him claiming discrimination to not renew the contract. Most people would have that sort of post for a year, max 2 then move on -it's not a training post so there is zero chance of 'promotion' or upwards training movement in that role.

They can withdraw their defence but that doesn't end the claim. If Sandie Peggie is minded to continue, and doing so is very much in her interests, the claim continues and with no defence the Claimant can cause huge mischief to NHS Fife and get an utterly damning judgment.

It's like if someone sues you and you decide not to bother engaging with the process. That is not a good idea.

FWIW, I sincerely doubt the higher ups at Fife see this as some hill to die on.

Ultimately even when people win at ETs, the organisation can often just absorb it and move on because it’s a monolith and the appellant is just one individual.

I hope Sandie takes them to the absolute cleaners for lost pay, career opportunities and pension contributions. However I suspect she will still end up coming out of it worse off financially than if she had shut up and put up and stayed in her role till retirement. Unless she gets a really good book deal or another job with a better trust. That is the real travesty here.

I have just gone ahead and done that and I will no longer watch bbc channel or iPlayer. It makes me feel even better than the complaint i put to them earlier. Hit them where it hurts. If more of us can do that …..

You only have to look at the post office people who are still massively out of pocket despite the full force of the law being on their side. It’s absolutely sick making.

Let's hope they (as in the SNP and all hangers on) get a dent in their popularity next year at the Scottish elections. I'm sick to death of them all. They've fucked the company I work for (public sector Scotland) which is awash with this pish. It used to be somewhere I was proud to work for but now it just spouts gender woo all the time whilst doing SFA for disabled employees (including me), actual women (article about maternity leave for "pregnant people" the other day really pissed me off) and generally pisses public money up the wall. It's a nonsense.

And the damage to her reputation too.

Initially DU was not a respondent and, I suspect, NHS Fife instructed JR on the belief that they would be able to toss out the submission for him to be one. When they failed on that score they thought they would win the argument for anonymity.

If the ET has been in camera (ie in private with only captured media reporting like the BBC and The Guardian) NHS Fife wouldn’t be in the position they now find themselves so I don’t think it ever occurred to them to query it

Yeah but she’s called all her witnesses has she not? It won’t end her claim, but hopefully she’d get a judgment in her favour

And sometimes it can be a good idea not to engage with the process if someone sues you, if you know you’ll lose anyway 😂

O M F G

it has taken my hours to catch up - I finished work around the same time as Fife statement 1.0. What the actual fuck were they thinking?

sorry if I missed it, but has there been any more news on KS being added as a named Respondent and on Dr U’s phone being required to be produced? 🍿

Ah I didn't know that.

If SP wins this case, will BU be at risk from being accused of indecent exposure etc... from all the females that were forced to share a changing space with them.

If thou couldst, doctor, cast
The water of my land, find her disease
And purge it to a sound and pristine health.

So just before it started up again, they said they cleared her of all allegations (but implied she was guilt anyway, and still needs to be re-educated).

I’m assuming that didn’t get the response they were after, so they then turned to drafting this statement, Slagging off SP, SM, the judge and the ICO.

Absolute shit show 🤡

Sandie Peggie lawyers accuse NHS Fife of blaming them for threats against staff

https://www.thetimes.com/article/6e3612d0-bab1-46b7-b3ac-c3cd7920c9a7?shareToken=3598f7582d9625517fb5f43801afe109

@littlbrowndog I get what you’re saying but on the other hand, the current administration had the wherewithal to actually publish statutory guidance which is pretty sex realist on sex and relationships education this week.

And they seem to have fallen on their swords about sex based rights post-the SC judgement. At least they have done the right thing when actually in power. Wes Streeting rightfully intervened in the Darlington case. And they aren’t the swivel headed true homophobes we see in some other sections of political life. Small mercies and all that …

Apparently Neil Gray was in Fife yesterday and in a meeting with Carol Potter… wonder if she gave him a look at that draft statement?!

Again

Image brain bleach required!