NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #32

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31

The tra would have an excellent choice of Fife witnesses then. I think almost all of them have slipped up and used he at some point.

There was a discussion on mumsnet in Feb about a proposed citizen's arrest, but it was someone, an ex-cop TRA on twitter wanting observers in court to 'arrest' anyone who 'misgendered' Upton! https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5266714-nhs-fife-tribunal-tweets-single-sex-facilities-case?reply=141880294&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Dammit! I really thought I'd get caught up before midnight, missed it by a hair. Lots of articles to read still.

I did have to take a break for some rage gardening after reading the emails. Chopping down bushes can be very therapeutic. Who knew the emails would be a minor highlight of the day?

I then watered a very small plant on the website. It's tiny but all I can afford - I just wanted to show my appreciation. I am surprised that there isn't a way to donate anonymously.

I'm finding this utterly compelling and entertaining which is wrong. I think it's a defence mechanism as otherwise I would be utterly consumed by rage, instead of just partially.

Edited for midnight typing.

Slipping up is a phrase that doesn't quite work for me. When they were having to direct most of their brain power to trying to answer questions without throwing themselves under the bus, the rest just defaulted to reality and said what it sees.

I've been a regular subscriber for years without any issues

😏 despite their collective self-identification as pious true believers 😇

I'm imagining the TRA citizen arrestor as an angry man pursuing the miscreants round the room to the Benny Hill soundtrack.

While the judge takes a long sip of gin.

EP distancing herself from email exchanges
EP - don't sit around reading eamils all day
CE - you say you write emails as if they are going to be read?
EP - yes
CE - a prudent approach, suggest you knew replies to that email weren't appropriate and didn't reply.
EP - can't say, don't use as a conversation.

Going back to EP, I noticed this, although I can't find where she originally says it. To me that comes accross as the unwritten rule (otherwise unknown at Fife) of don't put anything in writing you wouldn't want to be questioned on. Although you aren't meant to say that bit out loud! It didn't seem to be followed up much though.

So EP subscribes to the MN school of thought re not putting anything in an email that you wouldn't want NC to read out to you in court.

The Courier is reporting that the NHS Fife website was down for two hours because of so many people trying to access the statement.

The whole thing is so farcical that it makes Benny Hill look like a hard hitting documentary.

The judge would definitely be like....

I'm finding this utterly compelling and entertaining which is wrong. I think it's a defence mechanism as otherwise I would be utterly consumed by rage, instead of just partially.

I suspect this is true of many of us. Me, definitely. And as an absolute rollercoaster story, it does have everything going for it. Just so long as Sandie is OK.

Do you think that maybe people aren't just blindly following what the BBC/Guardian tells them? That would be a shame.

The Guardian seems to have been very quiet on it today...can't think why....

Even Shane Warne couldn't have spun today to fit their agenda.

This might be a silly question but is Dr U still working as a doctor while all this is going on?

I may have missed it but have the BBC done their usual interview with a drag queen about today's events?

I suspect he's on fully paid sick leave. Which to be fair is ok under a duty of care. Not that Sandie got such consideration.

thats good.

Apparently he is a psychologist. Working with people with serious mental issues who need help presumably.

he should be struck off. And all those pandering to him as well.

He's on a psychiatry rotation, or was, I think. But yes, it's not appropriate in any way. He'd be asking people with mental health issues to deny the evidence of their eyes, it's manipulative at best.

Just a reminder to those cancelling their licence fee, that this doesn't only affect your ability to watch the BBC. You can't watch any live TV, so ITV, channel 4, Sky, Dave, etc. And you also can't watch anything live on streaming platforms either. For example the live sporting events Netflix sometimes show.

Not saying you shouldn't do it, but saw a few people saying they'd stop watching BBC specifically, and don't want people getting caught out on a technicality.

Are you sure? Why would it affect itv for example? Anyway - watching live tv is gone anyway. Nothing on there is live.

Good point. I pay it through gritted teeth as currently I'm invested in the England/India test series, the women's Euros and Bake off the professionals. It sticks in the craw though.

Personally I never watch live sporting events. Even dead ones lol….
obviously I’m sure others do. I’m not being discriminatory!