Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

1000 replies

nauticant · 18/07/2025 12:49

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Needspaceforlego · 18/07/2025 20:33

Waitwhat23 · 18/07/2025 20:28

Yes, I'm pretty sure he was brought up at the ERCC ET and perhaps for this one too but in February.

This was an image from then.

Love it 😀 3 cheers to the mystical Pete the Plumber

INeedAPensieve · 18/07/2025 20:33

So...kids in bed, finally finished work and now relaxing with a gin.

What did I miss?! ...😂

Waitwhat23 · 18/07/2025 20:33

This has possibly already been posted on a previous thread, but here's a profile on the awesome Naomi Cunningham -

www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,naomi-cunningham-im-fuelled-by-rage-and-ive-been-lucky

Needspaceforlego · 18/07/2025 20:34

prh47bridge · 18/07/2025 20:01

She is a true believer who has been involved in several of these cases. TRAs and their allies don't seem to care that she always loses.

Surely their must be a point when the scales fall from her eyes?

NotMyRealAccount · 18/07/2025 20:35

I love the dignity and practicality of making a mass donation to Sex Matters in response to hearing about preposterous attacks on women's rights.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 18/07/2025 20:35

This is going to rumble all weekend at this rate.

https://x.com/alasdair_clark/status/1946282913428820172?s=46

“NEW: NHS Fife says it is "surprised and disappointed" by information commissioner @DvdHmltn's remarks tonight.”

Link to the article is in the X post 👆

anyolddinosaur · 18/07/2025 20:36

To be fair to Jane Russell she does a decent job with the appalling material she has to work with. Difficult to imagine anyone doing much better with the shit shows she's been involved with.

ParmaVioletTea · 18/07/2025 20:37

NebulousSupportPostcard · 18/07/2025 19:20

The statement is back up with an extra repetition at the end

"* NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that Sex Matters have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above."

It’s interesting that they insist there’s no connection to be made between Para 3 (naming Sex Matters people) and Para 4 (mentioning threats of violence against Upton and the Fife legal team).

Part of my job is to teach essay writing - writing to make arguments. I always teach that a good piece of prose should flow in a logical argument from paragraph to paragraph.

I’ll just leave that thought with you all.

Charabanc · 18/07/2025 20:39

INeedAPensieve · 18/07/2025 20:33

So...kids in bed, finally finished work and now relaxing with a gin.

What did I miss?! ...😂

Not much. Quietish day generally.

Rightsraptor · 18/07/2025 20:40

Charabanc · 18/07/2025 20:39

Not much. Quietish day generally.

Everything!

Charabanc · 18/07/2025 20:40

anyolddinosaur · 18/07/2025 20:36

To be fair to Jane Russell she does a decent job with the appalling material she has to work with. Difficult to imagine anyone doing much better with the shit shows she's been involved with.

She chooses them. Because she is a fellow traveller. Let's not waste too many of our tears on her.

CriticalCondition · 18/07/2025 20:40

It's a looong statement.

When somebody up thread suggested that it was a spiteful response to Maya's publication of the content of the Kate Searle emails earlier in the day I thought it unlikely. It's too long and wide ranging. It's been in preparation well before today and must have been signed off by someone senior to the author(s).

I hope an FOI reveals the dates, times and people involved.

Rightsraptor · 18/07/2025 20:42

That was meant for @Pensieve

I can't get the hang of this quoting thing.

Where's that Malbec?

CapeGooseberry · 18/07/2025 20:42

Do you think Barristers can be found sitting on shelfs?

No, Taxi ranks.

Charabanc · 18/07/2025 20:43

CriticalCondition · 18/07/2025 20:40

It's a looong statement.

When somebody up thread suggested that it was a spiteful response to Maya's publication of the content of the Kate Searle emails earlier in the day I thought it unlikely. It's too long and wide ranging. It's been in preparation well before today and must have been signed off by someone senior to the author(s).

I hope an FOI reveals the dates, times and people involved.

Absolutely. Planned for a few days. With the release supposedly after close of action today.

Ooops!

NHS Fife strikes again.

TervenAcademicals · 18/07/2025 20:44

I've also signed up for a monthly donation to SM, thank you for the link!

MyAmpleSheep · 18/07/2025 20:45

prh47bridge · 18/07/2025 17:03

We are in areas that, as far as I am aware, haven't been covered by the courts. However, when you say, "Direct discrimination involves treating an individual less favourably because of a PC that they have.", that isn't quote what the law says. It says, "Direct discrimination involves treating an individual less favourably because of a PC." There is no requirement for the individual to actually have the PC. It therefore appears that you cannot directly discriminate against an individual for not having a particular PC. This is only relevant for some of the PCs, of course. There is no-one who does not have the PC of age, for example. But the wording suggests that, for example, whilst you cannot discriminate against someone because of their disability, you also cannot discriminate against someone because they don't have a disability. Of course, we cannot be sure unless someone takes a case to court.

Disability is a special case: discrimination against someone for not being disabled is explicitly allowed (s.13(3) of the act and s.15).

The fact that EA2010 has to explicitly allow discrimination against someone who doesn't have the PC of disability is a strong argument that discrimination against someone who doesn't have another PC, such as GR, because they don't have that GR, is unlawful.

TrainedByCats · 18/07/2025 20:45

NotMyRealAccount · 18/07/2025 20:35

I love the dignity and practicality of making a mass donation to Sex Matters in response to hearing about preposterous attacks on women's rights.

I also finally got around to signing up for a Tribunal Tweets paid subscription in gratitude. The lengths NHS Fife have (are) going to to shut TT out only highlights how much of a difference the light their accurate and publicly available reporting is making.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/07/2025 20:48

alsoFanOfNaomi · 18/07/2025 20:25

NHS Fife is "surprised and disappointed" at what the Information Commissioner says. Michael Foran comments "Sweet Jesus. Just. Stop. DIGGING." 😁

x.com/michaelpforan/status/1946288822146265223

Everytime I think they can’t make things worse, they always do! 🤪

anyolddinosaur · 18/07/2025 20:48

@Charabanc We dont actually know that. The "cab rank rule" is an ethical principle in the legal profession, specifically for barristers, requiring them to accept a case, regardless of their personal opinions or feelings about the client or the case, as long as they are available, competent, and appropriately remunerated according to the Bar Council.

She probably charges vast sums of money, we dont know what other cases she is offered.

AtoC · 18/07/2025 20:49

Just really off at a tangent but I just saw this post on Twitter:

"Women's rights are simply not worth as much as men's. I bet Rachel Reeves is furious - when DU cried, women got suspended, when RR cried, she not only got criticized, she got all other women criticized too. Only TIMs can be emotional now."

CriticalCondition · 18/07/2025 20:49

To be fair to JR, who clearly hadn't seen the insane statement before it dropped, she did a pretty good job of trying to turn it to her clients' advantage. I was watching. You could see those cogs whirring fast.

PronounssheRa · 18/07/2025 20:52

The handling of this situation, todays statement, the pissing off the ICO

Im now of the opinion there should be board level resignations

AAT65 · 18/07/2025 20:57

CriticalCondition · 18/07/2025 20:49

To be fair to JR, who clearly hadn't seen the insane statement before it dropped, she did a pretty good job of trying to turn it to her clients' advantage. I was watching. You could see those cogs whirring fast.

I wonder who on Fife's side was busy googling the Defamation and Malicious Communications Act as the statement dropped...

anyolddinosaur · 18/07/2025 20:57

If the Fife board had any sense they'd appoint Sandie as their head of nursing. She is coming across as almost the only competent adult working for NHS Fife - honourable mentions to the HR people who tried to introduce an element of sanity.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.