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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How does it even affect you? Just be kind.

261 replies

Shedmistress · 07/07/2025 09:22

We all get this endlessly from every angle. Why do you care?
Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives?
It's just a tiny minority so go do something better with your day...

So I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread of 'ways it affects other people' and the effects of losing all logic, reason, sense of reality, and how health, safety and welfare are thrown out of the window the moment the word 'trans' is mentioned.

Please feel free to add your own with a link to what you are talking about. Especially documents relating to policy and processes that are wide open to abuse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Shedmistress · 07/07/2025 09:27

I'm going to start with the DBS transgender option.

If you change your name because of 'trans' there is no mechanism to track your past history so it would be unbelievably simple for any ex criminal to just not put their old names down, not call the trans hotline and therefore dodge any checks on their history.

Bearing in mind that this system was set up to check history, and this is the only group of people that are allowed to do this, and there is no definition of what 'trans' is, I'm surprised that this has never been spotted by any lawyers anywhere.

www.gov.uk/guidance/transgender-applications

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 07/07/2025 09:30

I think one of the major issues with this mantra is that if women only campaigned on issues that directly impacted them, little would be done for those hugely significant issues that only impact a small group of women, often who cannot raise their voice.

It is such a nonsense take. It is meant to be silencing but it is thought terminating. And the people who use it have showed they stopped thinking as soon as they heard it.

It is the same as ‘it is none of your business, why are you discussing it’. It is another way of saying ‘Shut the fuck up!’

Fimofriend · 07/07/2025 09:41

When a trans identified man, who worked at Screwfix, asked if I wanted to buy a lottery ticket and I politely declined, and he then very obviously got aroused by that seemingly innocent interaction, it affected me because I had unwillingly been involved in his sexual immersive roleplay. It made me feel icky and violated. I did not shop in Screwfix for the next several months until my husband could inform me that the trans identified man had not been seen in the shop since. I was also wary to to enter other shops in that period as I didn't know if the trans identified man lived locally. So his inability to only include others in his kink with their consent limited my freedom of movement for several months.

Rule number one about kinks is that you only include other people with their consent. I do not see why one group of kinks should be excluded from that rule.

Gastons5dozenEggs · 07/07/2025 09:43

I don't get the whole 'covering up my history thing' and welcome anyone to enlighten me...like I understand that in transitioning, trans people want to become more like their authentic selves. I do get that, however surely there's an authenticity in acknowledging the journey you have been on.

We aren't just the people we appear to be today - we're made up of a whole host of life experiences, socialisation etc out experiences make us who we are. So in the spirit of authenticity, why is it that there are these rules about covering trans history, redacting pronouns in historic paperwork etc? Why can't a trans person just be like 'look I'm trans, this is where I've come from and this is who I am now' if there is no shame in it?

Fimofriend · 07/07/2025 09:46

Helleofabore · 07/07/2025 09:30

I think one of the major issues with this mantra is that if women only campaigned on issues that directly impacted them, little would be done for those hugely significant issues that only impact a small group of women, often who cannot raise their voice.

It is such a nonsense take. It is meant to be silencing but it is thought terminating. And the people who use it have showed they stopped thinking as soon as they heard it.

It is the same as ‘it is none of your business, why are you discussing it’. It is another way of saying ‘Shut the fuck up!’

I totally agree!

I am extremely law abiding so there is little probability of me ever going to jail but that doesn't mean that I am ok with female prisoners being locked in together with rapists. They have been sentenced to jail time. Not to jail time and torture.

AidaP · 07/07/2025 09:50

Shedmistress · 07/07/2025 09:27

I'm going to start with the DBS transgender option.

If you change your name because of 'trans' there is no mechanism to track your past history so it would be unbelievably simple for any ex criminal to just not put their old names down, not call the trans hotline and therefore dodge any checks on their history.

Bearing in mind that this system was set up to check history, and this is the only group of people that are allowed to do this, and there is no definition of what 'trans' is, I'm surprised that this has never been spotted by any lawyers anywhere.

www.gov.uk/guidance/transgender-applications

And this post shows that you got no idea what are you talking about.

Anyone in the UK can change their name as often as they wish and there is no governmental mechanism to, well, govern or limit it. You fill in a deed poll and you are done, send it over to related places, and your documents get updated. There is no "reason" field on a deed poll.

So you are literally making things up to create problems as trans-related.

Crouton19 · 07/07/2025 09:56

How does it affect you?

  • Should we all only care and campaign about things that directly affect us? I'm hopefully unlikely to ever be in prison, I hope to never need a DV refuge, but the women who are there deserve for someone to care and to make their world safer, wouldn't you agree?
  • How does the Israel/Palestine conflict affect you? Why do you have such strong and vocal opinions on US politics? What does that have to do with you?
  • It affects me that I am expected to share spaces designated as female-only with men and not speak up. It affects me in the same way women for centuries have been ignored, demonstrating which sex has the more power.
Myalternate · 07/07/2025 09:56

AidaP · 07/07/2025 09:50

And this post shows that you got no idea what are you talking about.

Anyone in the UK can change their name as often as they wish and there is no governmental mechanism to, well, govern or limit it. You fill in a deed poll and you are done, send it over to related places, and your documents get updated. There is no "reason" field on a deed poll.

So you are literally making things up to create problems as trans-related.

But… we cannot just get a new Birth Certificate that alters our sex.

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 09:59

Shedmistress · 07/07/2025 09:27

I'm going to start with the DBS transgender option.

If you change your name because of 'trans' there is no mechanism to track your past history so it would be unbelievably simple for any ex criminal to just not put their old names down, not call the trans hotline and therefore dodge any checks on their history.

Bearing in mind that this system was set up to check history, and this is the only group of people that are allowed to do this, and there is no definition of what 'trans' is, I'm surprised that this has never been spotted by any lawyers anywhere.

www.gov.uk/guidance/transgender-applications

What are you talking about? You’ve completed made this up, or you just really don’t understand how it works or didn’t even read your own link.

When you go through any DBS check, you must include all your past names. Transgender people cannot hide their past from a DBS check. It is linked to them.

The sensitive application route just means that your employer or organisation doing the check won’t be told your previous name. Any of your convictions will still show, just like any DBS check. Your employer just won’t be told your old name, if you don’t want to be outed as trans. It has absolutely no bearing at all on whether or not your criminal history is disclosed. If it should be slow, depending on the type of DBS check, then it will be shown.

A trans persons not including their old names would be treated just like anyone else not including their old names on a DBS.

You should have mumsnet delete this thread so you can start a factually accurate one.

Helleofabore · 07/07/2025 10:00

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 09:59

What are you talking about? You’ve completed made this up, or you just really don’t understand how it works or didn’t even read your own link.

When you go through any DBS check, you must include all your past names. Transgender people cannot hide their past from a DBS check. It is linked to them.

The sensitive application route just means that your employer or organisation doing the check won’t be told your previous name. Any of your convictions will still show, just like any DBS check. Your employer just won’t be told your old name, if you don’t want to be outed as trans. It has absolutely no bearing at all on whether or not your criminal history is disclosed. If it should be slow, depending on the type of DBS check, then it will be shown.

A trans persons not including their old names would be treated just like anyone else not including their old names on a DBS.

You should have mumsnet delete this thread so you can start a factually accurate one.

Edited

And if people don’t include all their previous names? How is this checked?

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 10:01

Myalternate · 07/07/2025 09:56

But… we cannot just get a new Birth Certificate that alters our sex.

You can if you are trans and go through the correct process.

I’m not saying whether or not I agree with it. But your statement that you can’t do that is wrong. You can.

DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 07/07/2025 10:05

I'm a rugby player, and a police officer.

It affects me because I don't want to be "folded like a deckchair" by a male person playing women's rugby.

And because I don't want to search male bodies in custody - or be complicit in vulnerable female detainees being searched by male officers.

senua · 07/07/2025 10:09

Why do you care? Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives? It's just a tiny minority so go do something better with your day...
Hoist them with their own petard and play vulnerability top trumps. Why is an adult male more more important than a child? Is the #BeKind saying that they don't care about safeguarding?

MarieDeGournay · 07/07/2025 10:11

I'm deeply affected by small groups in society, like transgender people, having disproportionate influence on public life and social policy.

I think it's undemocratic and unjust, and it is disturbing how easily things we thought were safe, like scientific facts, women's rights, etc. were overturned.

When you've been committed to, and active in campaigning for social justice all your adult life - and a bit of adolescence as well, in my case - it is very disturbing to see how quickly the concepts of fairness, justice and rights can be turned on their head by a tiny percentage of the population.

Kindness is separate from fairness. It belongs to a different category of human thought and behaviour. Kindness is a good thing. It is a valuable characteristic, it is pro-social, it reduces friction between people who live together in large groups, and as my granny used to point out: Kindness costs nothingSmile

But kindness has its limits, and #bekind should never have become a parallel system of rights and justice.

Igmum · 07/07/2025 10:12

The DBS problem is that it relies on the person filling in the form to be honest. Criminals and those with ill intent tend not to be honest. It’s pretty much the job description.

Ways trans people adversely impact women and why we should care:

Rape shelters and support. This is a time you really need the option of single sex provision. We saw the train wreck of Edinburgh Rape Crisis with victims used to support MW’s ego. In Brighton there is no women only rape support (there is men only and trans only). Women have been attacked by TiMs in shelters.

Sports. Women’s sport is grotesquely underfunded. TiMs are now taking prizes and awards meant for women, using their male advantage.

Women’s groups in work. Set up to counter the disadvantage women face, taken over by TiMs.

heathspeedwell · 07/07/2025 10:14

There are around 200 transwomen in prison in the UK right now with convictions for rape, sexual assault and other extremely violent crimes.
Some of those rapes and assaults took place in toilets, hospital wards, changing rooms and other places where women should be safe.

The fact that men who identify as women are statistically more likely than other men to be predators, and the fact that they are invading our spaces, means that this could affect any one of us, or any other female that we care about.

This is from the Telegraph in Feb 2024. "More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes, government figures have revealed.
At least 181 of the 244 transgender inmates, more than 74 per cent, are in jail for crimes including rape, forcing under-age children into having sex, grievous bodily harm and robbery."

Archived article.

And in December 2024, they published figures showing that the number of transwomen in prison for rape had gone up by a further 10%. Most rapists have multiple victims.

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 10:16

Helleofabore · 07/07/2025 10:00

And if people don’t include all their previous names? How is this checked?

The OP is claiming that trans people are actually allowed to leave their old names off the form, and only be checked on their new names. As if that actually allowed and all OK, while everyone else must include all their names. She is claiming that this is one of the ways she is treated differently to trans people and affected by them.

The OP is making that up. Trans people are not allowed to leave their old names off, just like married woman cannot leave their old names off. They must include all their old names.

If you leave names off, DBS may not be able to verify your identity and the application can fail. Or sometimes it will go through as they don’t have a database of old names and the system doesn’t always work… but literally any criminal can do that. Anyone can change their name for any reason and then fill out their DBS with their new name and leave the old one off. You don’t need to provide a birth certificate if you have enough of the other forms of ID (passport, driving license, marriage certificate in your new name). And possible get it approved without DBS realising you had an old identity.

This applies to anyone of any sex or gender. Any criminal can do that. It’s fraud, just like it is fraud for a trans person to do it.

The OP seems to be implying that trans people are doing this more than any other person or any criminal and that trans people are actually ALLOWED to do this. They are not.

heathspeedwell · 07/07/2025 10:18

Here's what JK Rowling said for anyone not on X:
"This 'why do you care about a tiny fraction of the population?' line is, and always was, utterly ridiculous. Gender ideology has undermined freedom of speech, scientific truth, gay rights, and women's and girls' safety, privacy and dignity. It's also caused irreparable physical damage to vulnerable kids. Nobody voted for it, the vast majority of people disagree with it, yet it has been imposed, top down, by politicians, healthcare bodies, academia, sections of the media, celebrities and even the police. Its activists have threatened and enacted violence on those who've dared oppose it. People have been defamed and discriminated against for questioning it. Jobs have been lost and lives have been ruined, all for the crime of knowing that sex is real and matters.

When the smoke clears, it will be only too evident that this was never about a so-called vulnerable minority, notwithstanding the fact that some very vulnerable people have been harmed. The power dynamics underpinning our society have been reinforced, not dismantled. The loudest voices throughout this entire fiasco have been people insulated from consequences by their wealth and/or status. They aren't likely to find themselves locked in a prison cell with a 6'4" rapist who's decided his name's now Dolores. They don't need state-funded rape crisis centres, nor do they ever frequent high street changing rooms. They simper from talk show sofas about those nasty far-right bigots who don't want penises swinging around the girls' showers, secure in the knowledge that their private pool remains the safe place it always was.

Those who've benefited most from gender identity ideology are men, both trans-identified and not. Some have been rewarded for having a cross-dressing kink by access to all spaces previously reserved for women. Others have parlayed their delicious new victim status into an excuse to threaten, assault and harass women. Non-trans-identified leftybros have found a magnificent platform from which to display their own impeccably progressive credentials, by jeering and sneering at the needs of women and girls, all while patting themselves on the back for giving away rights that aren't theirs.

The actual victims in this mess have been women and children, especially the most vulnerable, gay people who've resisted the movement and paid a horrible price, and regular people working in environments where one misplaced pronoun could see you vilified or constructively dismissed. Do not tell me this is about a tiny minority. This movement has impacted society in disastrous ways, and if you had any sense, you'd be quietly deleting every trace of activist mantras, ad hominem attacks, false equivalence and circular arguments from your X feeds, because the day is fast approaching when you'll want to pretend you always saw through the craziness and never believed it for a second."

TempestTost · 07/07/2025 10:22

How about schools and other organisations for kids (summer camps, for example) feeding my kids complete unscientific nonsense.

My workplace insisting that I use faked pronouns for people supporting an ideology I think is deeply sexist.

Friends of my children with mental health issues, often from chaotic home lives, presenting as "trans" and their real issues not being properly explored.

My niece, trans identified since age 11, whose mum is terrified to challenge it, not least because the legal system where she lives is so captured.

senua · 07/07/2025 10:23

Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives?
Also, it's the question of forced-teaming. Why can't I quietly get on with my life, believing that sex is immutable. Why do I have to subscribe to their belief system?
People would be outraged if Christians/Muslims/whoever forced their religion on others so why is Gender Identity any different?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/07/2025 10:24

Here's a detailed explanation about the safeguarding loophole that allows trans people to opt out of the process that every other adult is required to use. It explains clearly what the problem is (for the reality deniers on this thread)

https://kpssinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/DBS-Checks-and-Identity-Verification.pdf

https://kpssinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/DBS-Checks-and-Identity-Verification.pdf

Helleofabore · 07/07/2025 10:25

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 10:16

The OP is claiming that trans people are actually allowed to leave their old names off the form, and only be checked on their new names. As if that actually allowed and all OK, while everyone else must include all their names. She is claiming that this is one of the ways she is treated differently to trans people and affected by them.

The OP is making that up. Trans people are not allowed to leave their old names off, just like married woman cannot leave their old names off. They must include all their old names.

If you leave names off, DBS may not be able to verify your identity and the application can fail. Or sometimes it will go through as they don’t have a database of old names and the system doesn’t always work… but literally any criminal can do that. Anyone can change their name for any reason and then fill out their DBS with their new name and leave the old one off. You don’t need to provide a birth certificate if you have enough of the other forms of ID (passport, driving license, marriage certificate in your new name). And possible get it approved without DBS realising you had an old identity.

This applies to anyone of any sex or gender. Any criminal can do that. It’s fraud, just like it is fraud for a trans person to do it.

The OP seems to be implying that trans people are doing this more than any other person or any criminal and that trans people are actually ALLOWED to do this. They are not.

Edited

"If you leave names off, DBS may not be able to verify your identity and the application can fail."

"may not" here is doing some very heavy lifting.

This requires someone to know that they have to look for previous names.

"Any criminal can do that. It’s fraud, just like it is fraud for a trans person to do it."

Yes. It is fraud. The OP has not made the distinction that ONLY people with transgender identities that have changed their names may act in this way.

Helleofabore · 07/07/2025 10:26

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/07/2025 10:24

Here's a detailed explanation about the safeguarding loophole that allows trans people to opt out of the process that every other adult is required to use. It explains clearly what the problem is (for the reality deniers on this thread)

https://kpssinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/DBS-Checks-and-Identity-Verification.pdf

Thank you MrsO. I was just off to find that. There seems to be some misunderstanding here.

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 10:26

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/07/2025 10:24

Here's a detailed explanation about the safeguarding loophole that allows trans people to opt out of the process that every other adult is required to use. It explains clearly what the problem is (for the reality deniers on this thread)

https://kpssinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/DBS-Checks-and-Identity-Verification.pdf

That applies to ANYONE who has changed their name. Anyone if any sex or gender.

You, and the OP, are trying to say this loophole only applies to trans people ans that they are allowed to do it.

Anyone who has changed their identity can try to get around DBS. Any criminal can go ahead and change their identity to try and get around DBS. This is not a trans issue, trans people are not getting special treatment, they do not have permission to do it.

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