Council being sued for transflag crossings

[lcakethereforeIam]

Apologies if there's already a thread but I've not found one

https://archive.ph/dCRzW

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/06/camden-council-pedestrian-crossing-legal-action/

'Unlawful political messaging'. Is this a thing? If it is and the complainant wins then it could have a wider implications regarding flag flying, possibly even pin badges and lanyards.

I did indulged in a small eyeroll at this statement from the Council

A spokesman added: “Camden is ‘no place for hate’ and we have a strong and continuing history of respect and support for everyone in our borough. We fight discrimination in all its forms, and this includes being an ally to our trans residents.

'Everyone'!? Clearly not the complainant or anyone else who doesn't buy into this divisive ideology. But, the statement implies those people are hateful.

No, the paint isn't paint it is thermoplastic. Also, actual thermoplatic has to pass skid tests to be legally put on roads. One could if one wanted ask for the skid test results and bituminous analysis on such a crossing to check it met the standards.

I'm disappointed! I thougt sigh5 impediment was a new thing!

That is really useful info! Thank you.

Have you got a reference for this, please?

JFC The stripes aren't even going the right way on that one. What the hell is a guide dog meant to make of that?

I hope this is successful so that next we can stop rail companies pissing cash away on painting flags on their rolling stock (instead of making their service more accessible to people with disabilities).

Presumably this is using section 2 of the Local Government Act 1986. Given that some parties have things like making getting a GRC easier in their manifestos, and others have said it should all be pulled back, it's possible to see this as promotion of a political view point that can be identified as party political.

I would have thought the council would argue this was a promotion of T people that celebrated them as they are and as the law currently is (which I don't think any party has said they'd withdraw yet) and that the crossings were about economic development of the area. (Flags on the road promoting Camden's LGBTQ+ affiliations draws young people and tourists to the area helping businesses in the area - that's the normal justification for the expenditure that I've seen).

Would be for a court to decide if one argument wins over others.

Overall I hope it doesn't win. Would like to see a case for consideration of people with disabilities win the day on this. I think women could be hurt by a ruling that if something becomes politically controversial councils cant' celebrate it. Women's progress over the last century+ might become verboten for councils if the current backlash gets picked up on as a vote getter by political parties at either extreme (and politics does seem to be getting more extreme).

https://www.pointofpride.org/blog/the-history-of-the-transgender-flag

"Helms describes the meaning of the transgender flag as follows:
“The stripes at the top and bottom are light blue, the traditional color for baby boys. The stripes next to them are pink, the traditional color for baby girls. The stripe in the middle is white, for those who are intersex, transitioning or consider themselves having a neutral or undefined gender. The pattern is such that no matter which way you fly it, it is always correct, signifying us finding correctness in our lives.” "

Apart from all the good points already raised about these crossings, they look fucking hideous.

Specification for Highway Works...

https://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/tses/attachments/31e1eb76-5906-45e5-bfa9-f024326cf9ef

The thing with police horses is that they are specially trained to not spook at anything (even random trans activist in a skirt hammering a cymbal two inches from their nose) so if the council has managed to create something that spooks police force that is a bad thing.

And 🤣🤣 to using Pink News as a source.

They aren’t.
This was about visually impaired people.
Read the thread.

Hello @Christinapple, it’s sight impaired people who are discriminated against and all of us have H&S risk implications increased on being near the crossing if the appropriate paint is not used. To proceed with this when the RNIB had raised it as a concern beforehand is reckless.

They certainly aren't temporary. I'm not sure if they've gone now, but I had at least two years of commuting past them.

I came to say the same as others, those with sight issues struggle. I also note it's disability pride month & yet I see no flags or crossings that work for us.

Oh, yeah, disability isn't a popular trend.

Many thanks! ❤️

Yes, there was

Oh! This applies to "Road Markings" and the Dept for Transport's view is that "Highway Art" does not need to comply with these Regulations:

"In the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore doesn’t come within the scope of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD)."

They say, "The use of surfacing in this way needs careful thought." but go on to talk about visual appearance rather than materials:

"Striped designs must be avoided as our view is that any crossing that is not a zebra must not resemble one. That would extend to using a striped pattern at a signalled crossing. Zebra crossings have a defined priority in law, and anything that looks like one could lead pedestrians to assume priority when it doesn’t exist."

Although materials are not mentioned, this part of the DofT statement could certainly be referenced to include materials:

"Local authorities are responsible for installing crossings, and decisions on installation of coloured crossings are ultimately a matter for them. The Department recommends local authorities carry out a risk assessment, looking at safety and compliance issues (for example whether the patterns could be distracting to drivers and therefore influence compliance with red lights)."

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbow_crossings_traffic_sign_r/response/2391420/attach/html/5/Coloured%20surfacing%20at%20ped%20crossings.pdf.html

You disagree with it because using legal action is a doomed attempt to win a rigged game. So long as the arguments are about ‘what do human rights require?’, ‘what’s the true meaning of equality?’, etc then the activists win – it’s progressive legislation with a ratchet built in towards more progressivism. Even when there was a ‘win’ with FWS, it immediately became a reason for more activism.

What you intuit, correctly, is that the way out of the trap is through politics – the only way to stop the madness is for a clean slate to be possible, and for the public to make the decision that that’s what should happen.

"The creator of the trans flag forced his wife to participate in his fetishistic cross-dressing and wrote ‘forced feminization’ and erotic short stories, including one about young girls who never age."

More on Robert Hogge here:
https://reduxx.info/creator-of-trans-pride-flag-was-admitted-crossdressing-fetishist/

What’s hate got to do with the price of cheese here?

@Sskka I don't think I can completely agree with you either. I do believe in human rights. I'm not against any and all equalities legislation at all.

But I think we keep expanding on it. Human rights are a backstop to democracy to prevent the tyranny of the minority. It shouldn't be used to overturn democratic decisions, and saying you feel upset by the presence of a flag or a mural or a statue shouldn't be enough for it to be removed- unless you can convince your peers of that.

That should say tyranny of the majority

They can say what they like, but a marking on a road is a road marking.

If vehicles drive over it, it needs to meet certain safety requirements.

They can't pick and choose which bits of road need to meet the standard requirements of basic road design, that's the point of the specification. Well, it seems they can if they want. Until it hits the courts.

You know we don't count, "workshy benefit scroungers" that we are. (Even if we either don't claim benefits, or do do work)

Very good point.
Most motorcycles would go over the black bit of a zebra crossing, ie avoid the paint, they know they loose grip on the paint.

Horses also struggle on painted white lines their shoes can slide on it.