Council being sued for transflag crossings

[lcakethereforeIam]

Apologies if there's already a thread but I've not found one

https://archive.ph/dCRzW

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/06/camden-council-pedestrian-crossing-legal-action/

'Unlawful political messaging'. Is this a thing? If it is and the complainant wins then it could have a wider implications regarding flag flying, possibly even pin badges and lanyards.

I did indulged in a small eyeroll at this statement from the Council

A spokesman added: “Camden is ‘no place for hate’ and we have a strong and continuing history of respect and support for everyone in our borough. We fight discrimination in all its forms, and this includes being an ally to our trans residents.

'Everyone'!? Clearly not the complainant or anyone else who doesn't buy into this divisive ideology. But, the statement implies those people are hateful.

This example is in fact a trans-flag, not a rainbow one. And it is presented as an actual crossing, not as 'road art'.

I didn't notice the "control boxes" (?) so yes, a controlled crossing with a splodge of "Highway Art" dumped on it. 👍

According to the Dept for Transport (I am assuming that the bit about pedestrians never having priority is out of date because it would depend now on where an "informal crossing" is placed; and for "rainbow crossing" we can read "trans flag crossing"):

"A ‘rainbow crossing’ is not a specific crossing type and the term has no agreed definition, but it may refer to the use of coloured surfacing within the studs of a formal signal controlled crossing. It may also refer to the use of coloured surfacing to create an informal or uncontrolled crossing, at which as with a pedestrian refuge, there is no priority in law for pedestrians over vehicles.

It is a long-standing position that in the Department’s view, coloured surfacing is not considered a traffic sign or road marking and therefore does not come within the scope of the TSRGD. It has no legal meaning and therefore could be placed within the crossing studs at a formal signal-controlled crossing, or pedestrian facility at a junction."

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbow_crossings_traffic_sign_r/response/2391420/attach/html/4/22573.pdf.html

My reading of that is that the flag colours are Highway Art placed on a crossing.

There are no FOIRs to the DforT on "What Do They Know" after mine in July 2023 and I could not find any relevant FOIRs on the DforT website.

No, it is ‘road art’ on a crossing.

The one in the photo used at the top of the article must definitely be a crossing, it has a pedestrian button. The spacing of the letters is dreadful btw.

”Look both ways” - how binary 🤣

...which must invalidate it's identity as an actual crossing, then? because it doesn't conform to the specifications:

(a)within the limits of a Zebra crossing the carriageway shall be marked with a series of alternate black and white stripes;
The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997

What is the status of a pedestrian on a decorated crossing who is hit by a car/a driver who hits a pedestrian on such a crossing?

Road safety - for sighted people, but as the RNIB has pointed out, particularly for visually impaired people - is much too important to be played around with like this.

The actual nature of the 'road art' is not important - I'm a lesbian, and I don't feel in any way validated by rainbow-coloured crossings; I'm Irish, and if they were to paint the crossings in 40 shades of green for St Patrick's Day, I'd have the same reaction - thanks for thinking of us, but road markings are not colouring books.

Light controlled crossings do not normally have stripes.

Because they're light-controlled, and stripes would indicate the yield-to-pedestrians characteristic of a zebra crossing.

So the danger is the confusion about whether drivers should be paying attention to the lights or the stripes.

There's a danger that pedestrians might think cars should give way to them because of the stripes, while drivers just see a green light.

The thing is that the whole thing that triggered the display of trans stuff on crossings specifically is the thought "stripey gender flags are a bit like a stripey zebra crossing, right?"

Except that the only place it's arguably legal to do it is crossings that aren't zebra crossings - making them look like pseudo-zebra crossings.

The confusion is inherent in the concept.

Where’s a graffiti artist when you need one.

Yes, that is a crossing but that has nothing to do with the "Highway Art" plonked down between the studs.

If the flag colours were cleaned away or painted over:

• there would still be a legal, controlled crossing in place.

If everything except the trans flag were removed:

• there would no longer be a formal, legal crossing in place and pedestrians would not have priority simply because they were walking on the "Highway Art" - unlike a Zebra Crossing.

Unnecessarily confusing and dangerous for all road users.

An article on the BBC

Camden Council to fight trans colours legal challenge - BBC News https://share.google/U4LQaDomqvmfGWaUb

I'm not a foreign driver, born and bred in the UK, but i wouldn't have realised that, that was supposed to be a crossing.

Obviously I wouldn't just mow down pedestrians in the road, but neither would I have realised I'm supposed to stop and let them cross.

I have chronic fatigue and brain fog; driving in busy cities is incredibly difficult for me as it is, without having to find the extra processing power to deal with non standard crossings as well.

Bloody dangerous. They're are other more suitable fora for making political points (but the council shouldn't be making them!).

The confusion is inherent in the concept.

Sounds like queer theory!!

Obviously I wouldn't just mow down pedestrians in the road, but neither would I have realised I'm supposed to stop and let them cross.

In that pictured example, you're not supposed to stop and let them cross.

You're supposed to ignore the stripes and pay attention to the lights that the stripes are distracting you from.

This happened to me the first time driving back in the UK after a period of time away. I had not come across one before, anywhere in the world. I didn't hit anyone, of course, but I also just thought it was 'road art' and ended up slamming on the brakes at night when I realised there were people crossing on it.

Just found this article in the Critic

It is right to be cross about transgender crossings | Roger Kiska | The Critic Magazine https://share.google/DUdsAjz8PzECBPdXU

Goes into the merits of the case.

I didn’t think non-standard road markings were legal?

I remember a few years ago in Barking and Dagenham they changed a roundabout marking to some weird star thing.

About a week, and several crashes later they repainted it 🥴

Quite. And given the number of accidents on crossings, you would think that introducing any new type of confusion is a VERY BAD THING.

I take it the people who commissioned the ‘road art’ will take full personal liability for any deaths?

I'm equally unsure how I feel about this.
But one possible equivalent would be thinking, is it ok for a council in an area with a history of secterian violence to paint a crossing orange, if the majority of inhabitants have voted for the Orangeman Pride party? In that case I'd support any individual sueing the council to stop it happening, even if they were the only Catholic resident in the area.
So I guess it depends if you think the trans flag represents a movement that is overtly hostile to any particular group. There's plenty of evidence from marches of people waving trans pride flags and carrying signs that call for violence towards TERFs so I think there's a case to be made that the flag does represent hostility towards TERFs. And I think the term TERF is used by said movement to refer to any woman or girl who does not want male people in previously sex segregated spaces and services. So, lots of them about in every council area.
It depends who exactly that flag represents.

I'm visually impaired. These kind of things make my life actively more difficult and dangerous. But disabled people don't matter to these people.

Hope she wins.

ggrrr, the lettering isn't centred on that crossing, looks like amateur hour.

Just occurred to me all the brouhaha about flags being painted on roundabouts, and hung all over the shop, does it reflect a double standard on the part of some Councils? Could it help the plaintiff in this case?

If the councils say that one flag is political (St George's) then the trans flag is too.

Personally don't think road markings should be painted in any flag, particularly with the introduction of automated driving, road markings need to be standardised.

Why is one flag acceptable, but the other isn't?