Should trans people have fewer rights? ‘Not in our name’, say over 35,000 women

[BeeSouriante]

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/society/should-trans-people-have-fewer-rights-not-in-our-name-say-over-35000-women/

Actually 36,000 now. Heartening to see in these horrible times. It's always wonderful when you see people come out to stand in solidarity against the manufactured anti-trans panic.

Good job men and women who identify as trans have the same rights as everyone else. Phew!

Yawn.

You know who else exists Bee?

Female people.

Female people exist.

Whatever your personal definition of a "woman" might be, the group of female people does not include you, and this remains true whatever you may change in language or in law.

So all I want to understand is why is it so important to you that a group of people who you don't even belong to, who have nothing to do your definition of "woman", who by number alone have historically been marginalised, exploited and abused more consistently than any other group of humans, whose problems are different to the problems you may or may not face, be denied legal rights, social acceptance and even our own name and language with which to speak of our own experiences?

Why is it so important to you to take away the tools we need to fight our historic and onoing marginalisation, abuse and oppression, things that are nothing to do with you or womanhood as you experience it but are centred in our female bodies and how society treats us because of them?

Because honestly, I'd really love to know.

Trans ppl have the same rights today they did last year, thd year before that all the way back to 2010

trans ppl have the same rights as everyone else in fact given they can falsify their birth certificates, they have more

so stop your endless fucking whining

I see Yorkshirebylines is the new go to for our friend

'Yorkshire Bylines is a not-for-profit regional online newspaper that supports citizen journalism. Our aim is to publish well-written, fact-based articles and opinion pieces on subjects that are of interest to people in Yorkshire and beyond. '

'About us'

Fewer rights than who? What rights do they not have?

Fewer rights than what/who?

Fewer rights than other people? No.

Fewer rights than they thought they had thanks to falsehoods spread by Stonewall etc? Yes

More rights than other people? Such as the right to use services reserved for the opposite sex for good reasons? No.

What rights are trans people losing @BeeSouriante do tell us!

What you want, as Andrew Sullivan explains in his New York Times article, is to change society according to what you - a tiny group of people - want. You pay no notice to anyone who disagrees with you, call for "no debate", and are shocked and upset that society generally is saying "no".

'That decision led to the issuing of guidance by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) which was then withdrawn after an intervention by the Good Law Project. '
What was that about 'fact-based' article, Yorshire Bylines?

The suggestion that trans people should simply ‘adjust’ to having fewer rights than they believed is both cruel and legally problematic.
This is cleverly written - ' fewer rights than they believed ' rather than 'fewer rights than they had' is accurate, but it also invalidates 'Should trans people have fewer rights?' in that it admits that the SC ruling did not take any rights away from trans people.

The systems that deny trans people basic rights and dignity are the same systems that have historically oppressed all women.
This is what underlies the article's main claim, that women and men who identify as women are all on the same side. Also not particularly 'fact-based'.

See, Bee, I read the article
I've borrowed and tweaked this slogan from the Toronto Men's Group from the 70s? 80s? I can't find anything about them online, but I've been told that they were staunch allies of women, and one of their slogans was:
To women, their rights and no less. To men, our rights and no more.

So:
To women, our rights and no less.
To transpeople, their rights and no more.

😆

Not sure Bee will be back.

Bee has buzzed off.

Yet another attention-seeking thread from the attention-seeking obsessive. Yet another live demonstration of why female people are correct to not want male-persons-of-gender sucking all the oxygen out of their spaces.

“When we see movements claiming to protect women while simultaneously targeting trans women... it often disproportionately impacts... women in poverty."

How? Bemused by much in this - would love to see the reasoning behind a good 3/4 of it. But am familiar with what it likely is, having heard, reflected on & formulated my own views on the false stats & logical fallacies etc. on which it's typically based...

But this one's new.

How, Bee?

I'd say it's more likely the other way round - that women in poverty have most to lose by losing sex-based protections. I can't fathom how retaining these would somehow disadvantage such women.

I wonder how people would answer if the question was, "should trans people have more rights than everyone else?"

Which is of course what they are demanding.

Should women have fewer rights? Nope!

I think trans people should have the same rights under the ECHR as anyone else. The convention recognises that sometimes the rights of one person have to be restricted to protect the rights of others. Trans people are in the same position as everyone else, which is just as it should be.

I think they're trying to hijack MN just like they're trying to hijack everything else of ours. In a country of over 65 million 36,000 ain't that many.
I shall be un-watching this tread.

Trans people have all the rights they deserve.

HTH

A petition for “cis gender women” to sign.

Now, I don’t want to be accused of the heinous crime of gatekeeping. But the recent signatories include Anthony Bamsey, Greg Turner-Smart, and Thomas Smith.

To quote from the petition itself:

Cisgender men who abuse their power are the real threat

The more I read, the sillier this becomes. It's another bingo card of the unthinking rhetoric we all know so well. So little of it stands up to scrutiny.

"Equality laws are created from a starting point of including everyone."

I really do think, when I read confused assertions like this, that this movement represents the worst of complacent western privilege. Without equality laws mitigating against the challenges presented by having a female body, these women wouldn't be able to afford to think this way.

"The systems that deny trans people basic rights and dignity are the same systems that have historically oppressed all women."

Seriously? The exact same?! Through the centuries!?!

It reflects a frightening naivety, and a fundamental misunderstanding of intersectionality.

😂😂
I genuinely laughed out loud.

I'd give a lot to be able to sit down with the author/s of this and really thrash it out, line by line, Socratic-seminar-style.

I wonder if they'd have a similar confidence in their own ability to explain and defend lines like those above.