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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BBC presenter corrects pregnant people to pregnant women

285 replies

Theeyeballsinthesky · 22/06/2025 08:41

https://x.com/journalismseen/status/1936513585082970489?s=46

and with a splendid eye roll to boot 😁

https://x.com/journalismseen/status/1936513585082970489?s=46

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
iamgoingthere · 22/06/2025 11:47

Good on her. I especially like the little smile she gave as she finished her report after she said women.

KnottyAuty · 22/06/2025 12:01

Andthatrightsoon · 22/06/2025 09:02

Never to be seen again on our screens ...

Good point - we should write to the BBC with gushing compliments about her and requesting more of her

DiamondThrone · 22/06/2025 12:03

Noshadelamp · 22/06/2025 11:06

Or 'non men' (Green Party, numerous occasions) @Waitwhat23

Sorry what? That's actually terrifying.

I am not anti trans but I am pro women and appalled at the erosion of women in language.

Love Martine for thiis.

If you recognise women as a sex class then, to them, you are inherently anti-trans.

OdeToRoy · 22/06/2025 12:03

There was so much complete rubbish and pandering to TW and what about the poor menz around the time of the SC judgement so seeing that interview with Heather is such a breath of fresh air. And on the BBC no less! No doubt there will have to have been 10 extra articles about drag queens for balance.

MelodyMalone · 22/06/2025 12:09

Thanks. I've seen it all now (although the Green Party "explanations" are unavailable on the link, so not quite all, I guess).

On another note, Beatrix Campbell! I haven't heard of her for years and had forgotten she existed. I read a few of her books back in the day.

Paperthin · 22/06/2025 12:10

I have just sent a compliment to the BBC to say how great she is generally and how excellent she was in her role on 21.6.2025.

TrainGame · 22/06/2025 12:12

Waitwhat23 · 22/06/2025 10:49

Or 'bodies with a vagina' (Lancet, September 2021)

Or 'those with a cervix' (Scottish Government cervical screening radio campaign, October 2021)

Or 'non men' (Green Party, numerous occasions)

There's so many more examples as well.

Non men???

What?!

I loved the Green party and then they went all out trans rights.

And I haven't touched them since.

Hip hip hooray for Martine!

Brainworm · 22/06/2025 12:15

ItsCoolForCats · 22/06/2025 11:35

I get what you're saying, and I do try to view things from 'the other side's perspective because I know I am biased towards the GC view. But I think there are important differences between the two scenarios.

Trans activists often make false claims that go unchallenged on mainstream media, e.g. about suicide risk or what the law actually is. HH did it in the interview by mentioning Trump and when Martine (calmly) asked him to explain what he meant he couldn't and tied himself in knots because Trump had nothing to do with the SC judgement. So what is it that TRAs would find hostile about the interview? The fact that she pushed back on the claims instead of unquestioningly accepting them whilst nodding sympathetically?

Whereas, at the WEC session, Sarah Owen was undoubtedly rude in her tone. She cut baroness Faulkner off when she was talking about her ill treatment at the hands of activists. And whilst Baroness Faulkner clearly knows her stuff, Sarah Owen hasn't even bothered to read the judgement, so not only was she rude, she was ill-informed as well. It was unprofessional conduct for a chair.

Thanks CoolforCats.

I agree with your take on the WEC debacle. My understanding is that the ‘other side’ claim that Sarah Owens was beyond reasonable in her patience because Baroness Faulkner was filibustering. They claim that when she arrived, she gave a hard deadline by which she had to leave, and then, gave very long answers that didn’t address the questions posed and used up all the time available on irrelevant detail. This is the justification provided for the interruptions and irritation. If the shoe was on the other foot and the EHRC guidance played fast and loose with the ruling whereby they were leaving loopholes for allowing transwomen in female provision - I would have sympathy for a chair getting frustrated and interrupting if this wasn’t being addressed.

The bit I don’t get is what answers they sought that they didn’t get? There were questions that she redirected to the government and the courts, because they related to issues outside of the EHRC’s remit. Beyond that, I am baffled.

I tend to think it’s a case of failing to differentiate between determining an answer to be unsatisfactory because (a) it wasn’t answered and (b) they disagree with the answer. I expect they were expecting their views to be affirmed and failure to do this reflected a ‘non answer’.

If this isn’t the case, I would love to know what questions they feel haven’t been answered and do these could be provided. Getting to a place of ‘both sides’ properly understanding each others position and recognising where and why there is disagreement would reflect great progress!

WarriorN · 22/06/2025 12:18

Love this!

Herbert’s interview was completely incomprehensible on his part. She was brilliant, again 👏

Waitwhat23 · 22/06/2025 12:24

Niall Christie of the Scottish Greens recently announced that men should step down from positions in the party to allow for more gender equality. He named Ellie Gomersall and Iris Duane as ideal candidates.

Take a guess. I bet you'll be right....

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-greens-civil-war-patrick-35343282?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

DiamondThrone · 22/06/2025 12:37

Many thanks for the interview links.

Heather really is a Herbert, isn't he 😆

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 22/06/2025 12:41

Brainworm · 22/06/2025 12:15

Thanks CoolforCats.

I agree with your take on the WEC debacle. My understanding is that the ‘other side’ claim that Sarah Owens was beyond reasonable in her patience because Baroness Faulkner was filibustering. They claim that when she arrived, she gave a hard deadline by which she had to leave, and then, gave very long answers that didn’t address the questions posed and used up all the time available on irrelevant detail. This is the justification provided for the interruptions and irritation. If the shoe was on the other foot and the EHRC guidance played fast and loose with the ruling whereby they were leaving loopholes for allowing transwomen in female provision - I would have sympathy for a chair getting frustrated and interrupting if this wasn’t being addressed.

The bit I don’t get is what answers they sought that they didn’t get? There were questions that she redirected to the government and the courts, because they related to issues outside of the EHRC’s remit. Beyond that, I am baffled.

I tend to think it’s a case of failing to differentiate between determining an answer to be unsatisfactory because (a) it wasn’t answered and (b) they disagree with the answer. I expect they were expecting their views to be affirmed and failure to do this reflected a ‘non answer’.

If this isn’t the case, I would love to know what questions they feel haven’t been answered and do these could be provided. Getting to a place of ‘both sides’ properly understanding each others position and recognising where and why there is disagreement would reflect great progress!

I read a terrible article by Ian Dunt about the session, in which he alleged that KF's answer to one of the early Qs (what are you going to do to improve your rep?) was many minutes of non-responsive waffle.

My recollection was that she immediately said 'our public trust rating has gone up since (date) from (tiny percentage) to (huge percentage), but SO refused to accept the answer.

ID living in a parallel universe.

This is the link but I wouldn't read it if you have any hypertension issues:

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/judgement-day-for-the-ehrc-c99

Judgement Day for the EHRC

How the equality watchdog turned into a culture war campaign group

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/judgement-day-for-the-ehrc-c99

Brainworm · 22/06/2025 12:49

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 22/06/2025 12:41

I read a terrible article by Ian Dunt about the session, in which he alleged that KF's answer to one of the early Qs (what are you going to do to improve your rep?) was many minutes of non-responsive waffle.

My recollection was that she immediately said 'our public trust rating has gone up since (date) from (tiny percentage) to (huge percentage), but SO refused to accept the answer.

ID living in a parallel universe.

This is the link but I wouldn't read it if you have any hypertension issues:

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/judgement-day-for-the-ehrc-c99

The article coheres with the TRA narrative I have heard.

Your phrase ‘parallel universe’ captures pretty much every level of disagreement!

This morning I was reading a thread on X talking about the ‘GCs’ gasping their last dying breaths and not going down quietly.

It’s remarkable how evaluations on both sides can be so similar in terms of who is winning and the tactics being used by other opposition! This is what drives me to try and make sense of what underpins TRAs evaluations and what evidence they draw upon

SabrinaThwaite · 22/06/2025 13:03

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 22/06/2025 12:41

I read a terrible article by Ian Dunt about the session, in which he alleged that KF's answer to one of the early Qs (what are you going to do to improve your rep?) was many minutes of non-responsive waffle.

My recollection was that she immediately said 'our public trust rating has gone up since (date) from (tiny percentage) to (huge percentage), but SO refused to accept the answer.

ID living in a parallel universe.

This is the link but I wouldn't read it if you have any hypertension issues:

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/judgement-day-for-the-ehrc-c99

I liked Ian Dunt’s take on things during Brexit, but lately he has turned out to be quite the disappointment.

BundleBoogie · 22/06/2025 13:06

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 22/06/2025 11:34

Do you eye roll too?

I have one of those faces that advertises my feelings at all times - I wouldn’t last 5 mins in one of those meetings.

Steelworks · 22/06/2025 13:14

Was just looking up Martine and this article popped up.

Methinks Eliana Silver (journalist) is a mn-better! (Article posted a couple of hours ago).

www.gbnews.com/celebrity/bbc-news-presenter-martine-croxall-women

Igmum · 22/06/2025 13:16

I‘ve not come across MC before so thank you everyone she is brilliant. At last someone challenges this narrative and that interview with Herbert 🤦‍♀️. I remember when political candidates rose up the ranks and regularly did hustings. By the time they stood for a seat they were pretty damn good at the back and forth of challenging arguments. HH’s only tactic is I’m upset/how would you feel. He can’t cope with even the mildest of questioning.

BundleBoogie · 22/06/2025 13:17

Brainworm · 22/06/2025 12:49

The article coheres with the TRA narrative I have heard.

Your phrase ‘parallel universe’ captures pretty much every level of disagreement!

This morning I was reading a thread on X talking about the ‘GCs’ gasping their last dying breaths and not going down quietly.

It’s remarkable how evaluations on both sides can be so similar in terms of who is winning and the tactics being used by other opposition! This is what drives me to try and make sense of what underpins TRAs evaluations and what evidence they draw upon

Yes. The tras appear to take everything women say and reverse it wholesale. This appears to have been their main strategy for years and to an extent it works as to the uninformed bystander it becomes a ‘he said, she said’ scenario. Who is telling the truth?

It’s only when you ask a few questions it becomes blindingly obvious. They rely on people being lazy or too busy to pay attention.

TheCatsTongue · 22/06/2025 13:19

Waitwhat23 · 22/06/2025 11:26

There's also the disparity between male and female health care. Prostate Cancer UK received a query as to why they don't use 'those with a prostate' and replied (entirely sensibly) that although they use such language on the various pages on their website, they use the word men on campaign materials in order to avoid confusion by using clear language.

Whereas, as per the Scottish Government's radio campaign I referred to up thread, the word woman wasn't used at all. Just 'those with a cervix'.

And when the NHS started updating the language on their Web pages to be 'more inclusive', it was the women's pages edited first.

One is a charity and the other is a government. Most governments have been Stonewalled, not sure about Prostate Cancer UK though.

There is definitely a disparity within the NHS where male issues do use the word "men" but female issue avoid the word "women".

Absentmindedsmile · 22/06/2025 13:21

Hilarious isn’t it, the BBC will now be having ‘crisis talks’ about what to do with this troublesome truth speaking woman of a certain age.

When I say hilarious, I mean, tragic.

JustFeedMeCake · 22/06/2025 13:23

IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta · 22/06/2025 08:47

Did she, though?

I couldn't tell if she did actually correct 'pregnant people' to pregnant women or if she was just reading out a list: the aged, 'pregnant people', women and those with medical conditions.

She may of course have been making the point in a deliberately deniable way, in case her bosses tried to pull her up on it.

Then again, the way she said "women" might have suggested that she was amending the script for common sense purposes.

Who knows?

Very easy to tell it was deliberate if you watch it. Good for her. Pregnant people my behind 🙄

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 22/06/2025 13:23

Gwenhwyfar · 22/06/2025 10:08

What's wrong with it?

‘Aged’* has traditionally meant very old, and very likely frail, too.

*two syllables, not like ‘aged’ as in wine or cheese. 🙂

genandtonic · 22/06/2025 13:24

Bravo! I am going to fill in a bbc form to make a comment of congratulations
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments
i think it might be useful if anyone else wanted to too?

MelodyMalone · 22/06/2025 13:29

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 22/06/2025 13:23

‘Aged’* has traditionally meant very old, and very likely frail, too.

*two syllables, not like ‘aged’ as in wine or cheese. 🙂

And to be fair, those are the people more at risk than the very many fit and healthy 65 year olds.

Justneedabookto · 22/06/2025 13:32

IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta · 22/06/2025 08:47

Did she, though?

I couldn't tell if she did actually correct 'pregnant people' to pregnant women or if she was just reading out a list: the aged, 'pregnant people', women and those with medical conditions.

She may of course have been making the point in a deliberately deniable way, in case her bosses tried to pull her up on it.

Then again, the way she said "women" might have suggested that she was amending the script for common sense purposes.

Who knows?

Why on earth would women who aren’t pregnant need to take more care than men?