Do you support transitioning at all?

[UnlockedXCX]

I somewhat do, I will admit. I think it's okay if an adult wants to take hormones, dress as they'd like to, be treated as M or F, or even change their name. I'll respect it all. However I don't agree with them being allowed into single sex spaces or conversations (a gay trans person is functionally a straight person, despite what they say, and a gay FtM shouldn't try to date gay guys for example).

I question if this is a common view or is it niche in these more gender critical spaces.

I do not think that cosmetic surgery should be available on the NHS, mastectomy, implants, hair removal etc

I think they mainly take hormones to grow boobs. Im not sure they have surgery much for anything. The women do of course, to cut their breasts off.

There's no reason for it either, if its not a fetish.

Breast and penis is a porn category not a woman.

Well said.

Half my friends have had to go private for fertility treatment in order to do something as fundamental as having a family because the NHS won't fund it, but they're happy to spaff money up the wall on this unevidenced bullshit?

Women suffering from recurrent miscarriages can't get follicle monitoring ultrasounds at the correct time of the month or progesterone in the luteal phase and menopausal women can't get their HRT prescriptions filled due to shortages, but the NHS will hand the same drugs out to trans women whose bodies are not supposed to produce these hormones, as if they're sweeties?

FFS.

Older transitioners frequently complain that they'd pass better if they had transitioned younger. That's a big part of the rationale for transitioning young, rather than waiting to figure out if it's what you really want.

There really is no excuse for the trans identified girls who think surgery will give them something like a functional penis. They need to be told not to get their medical info from Reddit.

I can't say NO enough times.

No I wouldn't. Because there is no such thing as transitioning unless maybe if you are a seahorse. I read something about them once.

Pointing out biological reality is not hate. Mother nature is not hateful. Not wanting men in women's spaces, or women in men's spaces, is not wishing people out of existence.

I am very worried about future generations because the ability to see more than black and white, to have a good discussion about things that can be nuanced, will be gone within the next generation.

Countless posters have said that on the whole they don't support "transitioning" (yet to be defined). The argument not to support basically boils down to:
a. if transitioning relates to sex change - it is impossible to change your sex

1. if transitioning relates to gender switching/gender nonconformity - have at it but you can't expect everyone to go along with you

and iii) public expenditure should go where there is greatest (medical in the case of the NHS) medical need

Genuine dysmorphia needs to be diagnosed by at least one independent psychiatrist and appropriate therapy offered, not immediately excising perfectly healthy body parts. Most of us are worried that transmen in particular are being rushed into irreversible decisions.

well put...
only caveat I would add is that if gender is society's interpretation of what a man / woman is - then you can't transition that either - all you do is expand society's interpretation...

So a man living as a 'female gender' by wearing a skirt - simply expands the 'male gender' to include skirt wearing...

I would argue (and have done on here a few times) that it is impossible to transition sex or gender - therefore there is technically no such thing as transgender / transwoman / transman!

Regardless of my own beliefs- what you’ve said about all the research done on transitioning showing there’s no benefit is completely untrue. The research shows the opposite- the vast majority have improved mental health and less than 1% regret it

Nope, this is totally out of date.

Larger scale recent studies have shown no improvement, even deterioration.

The 1% bandied around is from much older studies where the profile of those transitioning was totally differemt and it was much less widespread. The Cass report was clear about the lack of data from recent years - because the gender clinics simply neglected to record it.

I know a detransitioner personally. Literally no one wants to know about her story. The medical professionals don't have a clue what to do with her, they just wish she'd go away. All the trans supportive groups that cheered her on when she transitioned have totally abandoned her. I wonder how many young people are out there in her position, with no one in authority even ready to listen to them.

I would argue (and have done on here a few times) that it is impossible to transition sex or gender - therefore there is technically no such thing as transgender / transwoman / transman!

Exactly.

There are cross dressers, there are gender non conformists, there are those who've undergone body modification. That's a much more accurate reflection of the groups out there.

less than 1% regret it

This was based on a single study that found over a short following-up period less than 1% of people who had had surgery at a clinic had returned to the same clinic which had performed the surgery they now regretted to discuss that regret with the surgeon who encouraged them to do the surgery and was paid handsomely to perform it - and for that encounter to be recorded in their notes.

On the otherhand a recent German study found only 36% of people aged 15 to 25 with a gender-related diagnosis persisted for 5 years.

In addition, surgery to ‘transition’ is associated with a 12-fold increase in suicide attempts. Hardly ‘improved mental health’!

Genuinely don't care if a trans person uses my space

I am happy for trans people to share my space and also happy foren to share "my' space. Why don't we all just have "unisex" self contained cubicles What's the problem?

Well that's cool.

But you don't get to consent on behalf of other women, right?

There are many reasons why other women would find sex segregated facilities preferable to unisex options.

Why support something which is a fantasy? No one can change sex.

I would happily share my male spaces with males of all persuasions.

I obviously would prefer everybody sticks to The Rules Of The Bogs (furthest urinal, no eye contact, no chat, no malingering, wash your hands).

That’s cool. You can share any spaces you personally own with whoever you choose.

Women's sport, women's prisons, rape counselling, refuges, women-only swimming, lesbian clubs and dating apps, breastfeeding support, women's wards in hospital? What about women asking for a female HCP or the rule that female staff pat down or strip search women and girls? Women-only shortlists or representatives in unions, political parties etc?

I am supportive of people tranisitioning on the understanding that they are transitioning AWAY from their sex, not towards the other sex.

There is a huge difference between TG people who think that having medication and surgery makes them the other sex, and those who have accepted that that they will never be the other sex, as long as they are as far away from their sex.

These are people who don't lecture others, who don't put their problems on other people to accomodate.

I support these people into living their best life.

What could be more womanly than buying yourself a pair of tits to play with, because you've always wanted a pair and never had one?

Re regret rates.

I doubt many of the middle age male transitioners have regret because they arent changing their body that much, and its just allowing them to perform their life long hobby full time.

The young are changing their bodies more. Even if their outwards appearance hasnt changed dramatically, the drugs will have long term consequences.

Transition is selling the idea that a man can be a woman, and woman can be a man, therefore someone can revert back to their orginal sex without consequences. If they dont believe this, they dont believe in transition in the first place.

The young will have far more time to live with the decision, too.

For these reasons, i wouldn't be surprised if regret rates are heavily biased towards the older patients.

It is impossible to transition away from your sex. Whatever drugs or cosmetic surgery you have, you will always be just as much the sex you were when you started.

These are people who don't lecture others, who don't put their problems on other people to accomodate.

These are the people who worked quietly behind the scenes, as per Denton’s handbook, to dismantle sex based protections, introduce GRA and Self ID, train companies and public sector to follow ‘Stonewall Law’ rather than the actual law, change data records from ‘sex’ to ‘gender’, introduce ‘Appendix B’ to the NHS removing single sex hospital wards, introducing guidance to schools removing safeguarding and putting gender ideology into the RHSE curriculum, changing police search guidelines so male police officers could strip search women, allow male rapists into women’s prisons….